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Re: Evolution Simplified (Read 32768 times)
GoodScienceForYou
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Nov 19th, 2009 at 9:27pm
 
Quote:
Heredity.
Just look at the goddamn Baldwin brothers.


Heredity has noting to do with the theory of evolution because all I have seen is a horse becomes a horse, a dog is always a dog, a lizard becomes another lizard,  a fish is always a fish, a human is always a human.  If it turns into something else then it would "evolve".  If you can't show any changes into a new genus or even an extremely modified version with pronounced improvements of the same creature then you could show evolution.  However, there is no evidence for this.  A tiny horse becoming a large horse is still a horse.  In actual fact the tiny horse ancient "horse" was much more advanced and complex and from the bone structure was able to walk on different types of terrain. It had multiple bones in the legs, whereas the newer horse has one set of bones going down in a single line of joints.  That is de-evolution with exceptional limitations from the degradation.

Quote:
   Mutation.
Glimpses of this in "adaptation". DNA changes.


There is no such thing as net positive mutation in the DNA.  It is not "mutation" if it is just the expression of the DNA passed to the offspring.  And any changes in the DNA have never shown any form of evolution, only degradation and de-evolution.  I have read many more papers on this than you have obviously because all you get is creatures adapting to survive as the same creatures and de-evolution from screwed up changes to the DNA coding. There is no other evidence in the DNA.

Quote:
Competition.
Limited resources to fight for. Predators. Prey. Cold. Hot. The world is rough.


All I have seen in the fossil record is de-evolution and extinction not evolution.  If you can show any absolute evidence for evolution besides this. Competition does not equate to evolution.  It equates to stabilization of the fit and not allowing the weak to reproduce.   Golly Gee MR Wizard! Get free of this crap.  Natural occurrences in breeding, like the big dog gets to mate is just more of the "programming" for survival of a species as the same species, but strong.  Any adaptations are for the same purpose, OBVOUSLY.


Quote:
These 3 things are perfectly demonstrable and they ARE evolution.


Opinions are never evidence. Take a look at what is really happening and stop this fantasy.

"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be." Albert Einstein

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either."
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"A person starts to live when he can live outside himself."  Albert Einstein

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(If you are not a guardian over your mind, you will succumb to other people's HEMG)

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education."  Albert Einstein

"Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true." The Buddha [paraphrased]


"Just because everybody on earth believes something does not make it true" James Arjuna

"The obvious isn't obvious until it becomes obvious." James Arjuna

"Make seeking the truth your priority over anything else.  If you are not seeking the truth then you are seeking to perpetuate your HEMG beliefs." James Arjuna
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #1 - Nov 19th, 2009 at 11:10pm
 
Quote:
Heredity has noting to do with the theory of evolution because all I have seen is a horse becomes a horse, a dog is always a dog, a lizard becomes another lizard,  a fish is always a fish, a human is always a human.  If it turns into something else then it would "evolve".  If you can't show any changes into a new genus or even an extremely modified version of the same creature then you could show evolution.  However, there is no evidence for this.  A tiny horse becoming a large horse is still a horse.  In actual fact the tiny horse was much more complex and from the bone structure was able to walk on different types of terrain. It had multiple bones in the legs, whereas the newer horse has one set of bones going down in a single line of joints.  That is de-evolution.

It's called descent with modification. Your personal lack of observation is meaningless in this matter. And so is your lack of imagination. It is simple and logical to understand that lots of little changes amount to a big change. Lots of little steps will take you 1000 miles. This is elementary.

Quote:
There is no such thing as net positive mutation in the DNA.  It is not "mutation" if it is just the expression of the DNA passed to the offspring.  And any changes in the DNA have never shown any form of evolution, only degradation and de-evolution.  I have read many more papers on this than you have obviously because all you get is creatures adapting to survive as the same creatures and de-evolution from screwed up changes to the DNA coding. There is no other evidence in the DNA.

Lie.

Quote:
It is not mutation if it is just the expression of the DNA passed to the offspring.

So a child receiving two copies of the same gene is an "expression"?. HAha.. aww all this laughing is an incredible ab workout.
No. It's a mutation. Mutation is fact. You ever hear of Down's syndrome? Yeah, that's a mutation. Two parents without that problem can produce offspring with EXTRA DNA. This is a mutation. It did not exist in either parent. This is an irrefutable fact.

Quote:
Competition does not equate to evolution.

Of course it doesn't. Mutations produce the new genes. Competition provides a filter. Good mutations become more frequent in the population. You've admitted this occurs. We've documented it in moths and birds. It's a fact. Given more time this process produces all of the variety we see today.

None of those quotes support your position or your mindset. None of them are advocating being woefully ignorant or ignoring a mass of scientific achievement that is better supported than anything else humanity has ever produced.

Seriously. Your objections to Heredity, Mutation and Competition are completely ridiculous. Do you have ANY serious or insightful concerns about those topics?

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GoodScienceForYou
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #2 - Nov 20th, 2009 at 1:15am
 
http://evolutionforum.info/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1258221984

Read this post and listen to the videos if you really want to learn how to be a free thinker.
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #3 - Nov 20th, 2009 at 7:15am
 
I presented a simplified and coherent state of the theory. That's what the scientific community has so far assembled.

Do you have any SPECIFIC objections that aren't based on your personal lack of observation or your personal unwillingness to believe lots of small changes equal big change.

I see a lot of hand-waving about belief and whatnot but you haven't presented any challenge to the theory.

Heredity, Mutation, Competition. They're all perfectly real. They produce evolution.

Spare me all the lecture about being indoctrinated. I guess I've also been indoctrinated about physics and chemistry and the shape of the earth and the solar system and mathematics and engineering.  Roll Eyes

If you don't have any valid points I guess we're done here.
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #4 - Nov 20th, 2009 at 10:00am
 
Quote:
I presented a simplified and coherent state of the theory. That's what the scientific community has so far assembled.

Do you have any SPECIFIC objections that aren't based on your personal lack of observation or your personal unwillingness to believe lots of small changes equal big change.

I see a lot of hand-waving about belief and whatnot but you haven't presented any challenge to the theory.

Heredity, Mutation, Competition. They're all perfectly real. They produce evolution.

Spare me all the lecture about being indoctrinated. I guess I've also been indoctrinated about physics and chemistry and the shape of the earth and the solar system and mathematics and engineering.  Roll Eyes

If you don't have any valid points I guess we're done here.


These two videos are based on absolutely irrefutable DNA evidence that cannot be denied, except by religious belief in Evodelusionism.






Let me repeat;  There is no evidence that even suggest evolution in all the 20,000 papers I have read on this.
DNA does not support evolution. Speciation does not support evolution. The ERV's do not support evolution. The fossil record is a friggin mess and even so it does not show evolution.

I have no religion.  I only go with what is real and obvious.

When people are brainwashed by all that has happened to them in life, it is subtle and powerful.  I have been able to stay away from that by all the events and my responses to those events ,by standing back and observing, studying all sides of anything.  Having no agenda but to seek the truth is my life in a nutshell.
My father taught me at a very early age to never believe anyone, no matter who they are, because they all have agendas. He told me this because his father was a fundamentalist who taught with a stick and child abuse.
My father has never been wrong.  People's agendas stick out to me like a "sore thumb". When you don't have any agenda but to seek truth and to be truthful, other people with agendas are obvious.

If you want to know the truth, you have to be absolutely honest with yourself. 

"Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true." The Buddha [paraphrased]

This is the same philosophy my father gave me.

In real science you use the scientific method and you test things over and over until it becomes obvious and you get real results every time.  In my field I can send a diagram of a schematic to china and have it built.  I can sent the same diagram to Indonesia and have it built.  I can send it anywhere and if they do what is told in the drawings and diagrams all of the circuit boards will work the same.  If there is a flaw in the design they will all have the same flaw.  This is real science.

When I was a child I witnessed and atomic blast while traveling through Nevada.  That is pretty absolute evidnece of the power contained in atoms.

Some paleontologist who is brainwashed into believe that evolution is real, is not evidence, because they force their agenda on the evidence, ruining all objectivity. This is why we need only DNA in these specimens to see any genetic links at all.  You cannot trust these fanatical brainwashed, religious people with your mind.  This is so damned obvious that it is hard for me to even begin to understand how you would fall for that garbage.

You cannot even come up with a scientific method to test any of this belief, so it can't be proven or disproved because you cannot test it.  There is absolutely no way to use the scientific method on a religious belief.  That is why there is no evidence for evolution.

The need to know how life got here is the cause of all sorts of human suffering and religions that kill in the name of God.
That is not an excuse to have another screwed up religion forced into science.  Mythology has been in science for thousands of years. It has never left.  It is the same as it ever was.  IF there is anyway for some messed up belief to be propagated it would only be in socially accepted authority (science) or by powerful religions who rely on money. This is historically how myths are propagated and children are indoctrinated. Children naturally want to conform, and that is thier downfall and weakness.

I have never been like that, I find it repulsive to give my intelligence over to some other person's nonsense.

The answer is that there is no need to know how life got here, or how life goes on, if all you can come up with is religious bovine garbage.  This goes for all of you.

If you have no evidence to back up something, stop filling in the blanks with delusional beliefs that have no basis in science.  Don't call it science when it really is a religion.

Don't ever compare a mythological religion to real functional science.  It degrades science. This crap is the worst form of indoctrination and bovine crap I have ever come across in science.

I waited until I had every part of this understood before coming out with the truth on this subject. If you really need to go over every DNA evidence, and fossil evidence, ERV's and all those screwed up beliefs I can do that for you.

But if you have not learned how to stand back and see your own beliefs being projected, by now, you will probably go to the end of your life with all your delusions in tact. That is a sad life.


Unlike people who believe things, I am capable of looking at the evidence for what it is. With no prejudices. And I never believe anyone until I test everything they have to say.

There is nothing but belief projected on evidence in Evodelusionism.

The fossil record with all the categorizing has no value if you have no DNA to support the delusional observer who is putting his stamp of belief on all the specimens.  Humans are inherently flawed in this way.  They force belief on everything.  They do this because they are weak and not able to stand back and just be objective. They want to ONLY show the belief in everything they touch. They do this so much so that students are never given any of the obvious and real contradictions that are prevalent in this nonsense.  They are never taught to look at all the evidence, but only the evidence that suggest evolution.

I know this because the students are totally unaware of any of this, until I tell them.

This is why all the fossil evidence is tainted, dirty, and basically worthless until we find new tools to really understand what has been in he past.  Right now this is a total unknown.  There is no way to tie any fossil to any other fossil other than observation and that observation is tainted by brainwashed believers.  Once you have belief you have no credibility as a scientist.

---------------------------

There is no Mutation in DNA, only replication of gene expression and adaption.

Mutation is only referenced to messed up chromosomes.


If an offspring has messed up chromosomes they never make it into the gene pool as a "species" because they don't breed.  If they do breed the offspring has sexual dysfunction and so the "species" stops.  I have read at least 10 papers on this. This is why we have no race of Downs Syndrome people. There is no such thing as mutation causing a new genus.

In the physical record of all the evidence we have there exists nothing that supports evolution.

It is a fairy tale that small changed from generation to generation equal large changes over some immense time.
There is absolutely no evidence of this in the fossil record, as messed up as it is.  We see a lot of dead ends where the creatures cease to have the ability to adapt beyond the limits of their genetic structures.  This is fact.  There is no trail between fossils only huge gaps that are filled in with belief. One delusional "Professor" said to his students: "Don't worry about the gaps, just have faith and belief in the science!"  No kidding and this weak human is teaching students?

When you are brainwashed you are let to believe by inference and implication that "Small changes must show evolution".   The problem is we have no scientific data to back that concept, so it is only belief projected on what you evodelusionists think is happening. That makes it a myth and fairytale.

It is time for you to grow up and let go of the Santa Clause idea of this Myth of Evolution.

Do you have absolute evidence of any creature ever making huge changes to their genetic structure over any length of time?  Back off on the belief and go look for this evidence.
If you can find any interpretation of  evidence that is not tainted with belief, then you are not a scientist.

If you can find any interpretation of  evidence for evolution that is NOT tainted with belief, then you are not a scientist. A real scientist is objective and has no beliefs.
So, far the "elephant in the room" in all papers on this pseudo science is this faith and belief that evolution must be true, but that is all I have read in the 28,000 papers on evolution and biology.  Using the word "evolution" hundreds of billions of times does not make it real.
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #5 - Nov 20th, 2009 at 10:38am
 
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There is no evidence that even suggest evolution in all the 20,000 papers I have read on this.

Riiiight. The world is flat! the world is flat!

Quote:
There is no Mutation in DNA, only replication of gene expression and adaption.

Mutation IN DNA? That doesn't even make sense. What the hell are you talking about. DNA mutates. It changes. It's a string of nucleotides that physically changes. Stop saying this. It's a lie. You repeat this over and over.
"only replication of gene expression and adaption" -- WHAT?!?! This makes no sense. Replication OF expression? Do you know what gene expression is? It's a process. It's not an object, it can't be "replicated". What are you talking about?
And adaptation is a product of Heredity, Mutation, and Competition.

Don't just type pages and pages of your rhetoric. We've seriously gone nowhere.
Get specific.
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #6 - Nov 20th, 2009 at 12:35pm
 
Quote:
Don't just type pages and pages of your rhetoric. We've seriously gone nowhere.
Get specific.


I have been extremely specific, but you are obviously not reading anything I have taught you.

When humans reproduce there are no "mutations" between the parents and the offspring.  This is because mutations are harmful, 99.96% of the time.

Again, this video is from the National Medical Library.



What part of this video do you not understand. This is the only way mutations work and they are 99.9999% deleterious to the creatures.  When they live with this mutation it will be transmitted to the offspring and degrade the whole species as it transmits through interbreeding, and it is particularly bad when both parents have the same mutation. That is why close relatives cannot breed any longer.

There is only genetic information being transmitted to the offspring. The meshing of two people's DNA and passing traits on to the child is not evolution.  It is the continuation of a species.  Mutations are bad, they ONLY destroy existing correct DNA coding that used to produce good cells.

The geneticists are too lazy to do the research in the past to see the combinations of gene expression in the ancestors of the child, so they call them "random mutations", because they are promoting a religion.

You are the one who is going nowhere, because you have not produced any evidence.

You do not understand the difference between real evidence and belief.

Get rid of the belief and start over reading what I have taught you so far. When you can respond to my teachings then I will know you still have a brain.

I have high hopes for anyone who comes across my path that they will be changed from the experience and grow some intellectual muscles.
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #7 - Nov 20th, 2009 at 12:59pm
 
You arms getting tired from all of the handwaving?  Wink

Your one line arguments against Heredity, Mutation, and Competition have been less than stellar.
Do you have any compelling arguments?
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #8 - Nov 20th, 2009 at 5:11pm
 
Quote:
You arms getting tired from all of the handwaving?  Wink

Your one line arguments against Heredity, Mutation, and Competition have been less than stellar.
Do you have any compelling arguments?


You have to be a nut case to think that heredity "proves" evolution.  It is not even an argument.

Can you explain to everyone here how it is possible for a rational person to think heredity has any implication of evolution, since there exists not a crumb of evidence for this fantasy?

Start there.  Just answer this completely then we will go back over the "mutation" bovine garbage and the "competition bovine garbage".

This had better be detailed and complete, with all your evidence to back it. Cheesy
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #9 - Nov 20th, 2009 at 5:13pm
 
While you are at it,you need to listen to all these videos and
read the comments.   Grin

http://evolutionforum.info/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1258221984
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #10 - Nov 21st, 2009 at 11:50am
 
Quote:
You arms getting tired from all of the handwaving?  Wink

Your one line arguments against Heredity, Mutation, and Competition have been less than stellar.
Do you have any compelling arguments?


Evolution:  "that theory which sees in the history of all things organic and inorganic a development from simplicity to complexity, a gradual advance from a simple or rudimentary condition to one that is more complex and of a higher character."  Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language.

So far,  you have not proven anything to me except that you see things that are not there.

There is nothing in "heridity" that proves or even suggests evolution. 

I told you to first show us the obvious and irrefutable evidence that "heredity" shows evolution WITHOUT any opinions from experts.

You can't do that, because IT IS only an opinion and nothing else. There is no evidence to show this ties to any evolution.


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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #11 - Nov 22nd, 2009 at 11:52am
 
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that "heredity" shows evolution

They never claimed heredity showed evolution. They said it was one part evolution.

How hope you didn't read all of those thousands of papers with that kind of reading comprehension.
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #12 - Nov 22nd, 2009 at 2:06pm
 
Quote:
Quote:
that "heredity" shows evolution

They never claimed heredity showed evolution. They said it was one part evolution.

How hope you didn't read all of those thousands of papers with that kind of reading comprehension.


Evolution:  "that theory which sees in the history of all things organic and inorganic a development from simplicity to complexity, a gradual advance from a simple or rudimentary condition to one that is more complex and of a higher character."  Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language.

GoodScience Said:

The idea that heredity shows any part of evolution is NOT proven and is a crappity smacking opinion; Thus it is not usable evidence.
When you go through all the "evidence" it is all the same feculence. Belief projected with messed up opinions of screwed up believers in this crap religion of Evodelusionism.

If you can't see that, you need to go back and study all of your papers and realize that opinions by believers is not science, it is an HEMG religion.

What evidence do you want to bring up that you think is real evidence and not opinions by some cult member?
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #13 - Apr 5th, 2011 at 7:04am
 
Quote:
You cannot even come up with a scientific method to test any of this belief, so it can't be proven or disproved because you cannot test it.


Can you please lead by example and explain an infallable method of testing gravity on all scales so that I can use your response as a template to how you would like your answer presented?

This will leave less room for interpretation error.
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Re: Evolution Simplified
Reply #14 - Apr 6th, 2011 at 12:38am
 
ProofMan wrote on Apr 5th, 2011 at 7:04am:
Quote:
You cannot even come up with a scientific method to test any of this belief, so it can't be proven or disproved because you cannot test it.


Can you please lead by example and explain an infallable method of testing gravity on all scales so that I can use your response as a template to how you would like your answer presented?

This will leave less room for interpretation error.

ProofMan wrote on Apr 5th, 2011 at 7:04am:
Quote:
You cannot even come up with a scientific method to test any of this belief, so it can't be proven or disproved because you cannot test it.


Can you please lead by example and explain an infallable method of testing gravity on all scales so that I can use your response as a template to how you would like your answer presented?

This will leave less room for interpretation error.



Gravity is a law of science.  It operates exactly the same in an absolutely predictable way under the same exact conditions.  This cannot be falsified.  In every real science we can eventually predict all outcomes, if we understand all the conditions and have ways of testing it.  So far we have seen gravity work the same under the same conditions for as long as we have studied it.

There is nothing about gravity that relates to religious ideology. 

Event the lottery is predictable, if you have ways of understanding all of the scientific phenomenon surrounding the balls coming out of the machine.

Evodelusionism is a religion because it never happens ever.

It is based on magical ideas projected on the physical world and now that we have all the physical evidence against it we can disregard it.

As long as we did not have the physical evidence of the world being close to a spherical shape, the belief in a flat world was the common belief.  Even after the evidence was presented and it was obvious to those who understood it and allowed themselves to understand it;  it was fought against, even until the late 1890's.

This idea of simple life evolving has no evidence whatsoever.

Not one time as a bacteria ever gained in complexity.  It has not gained in cells that perform different functions. All it does is digest carbon based matter and make enzymes. Yet the Evotards always say that bacteria has evolved. 

How can people be that stupid?   


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