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Nylon Eating Bacteria So I watched a video (Read 52080 times)
Oicurmtoyoy
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Re: Nylon Eating Bacteria So I watched a video
Reply #75 - Nov 23rd, 2010 at 11:10am
 
Two things:
1. Why are you deconstructing the Argumentum ad populum? I never made that case, so refuting it is pointless.
2. Respond to my newer comment. Posting another response to my old comment isn't even slightly useful, especially when the comment is irrelevant.
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GoodScienceForYou
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Re: Nylon Eating Bacteria So I watched a video
Reply #76 - Dec 2nd, 2010 at 3:19pm
 
Oicurmtoyoy wrote on Nov 22nd, 2010 at 12:09pm:
Pay attention. Bacteria evolves. It's DNA changes, an it's been confirmed with DNA sequencing. What part of that is so hard to understand?

And the point was that Nylon, a synthetic material, is bonded in such a way that bacteria can't normally digest it. A genetic mutation, which has been isolated, allowed one strain to digest nylon, while the others could not.

And if you conciser bacteria a species, then I'd like to hear your definition of the word "species".


You must be a child. Bacteria was only in two species long berfore you were born. The different "strains" were called strains. This definition of species has changed to match this religion. It is nonsense.

I want you to show me any bacteria that has evolved into something besides bacteria. You are a really stupid person.

There is no way to determine if some "muitation"has taken place. Nearly always if you go back and look you will find the same DNA structures are simply repeating. The problem is these idiots are so stupid they would never think to actually look.

What absolute evidence do you have that any creature has ever evolved into a new genus?  That a fish "evolved" into a reptile (as you are taught) that these reptiles "evolved" into mammals, and birds?   That this magical process eventually caused humans to appear on earth.  So, basically, these idiots think that fish our our ancestors. (Just how stupid do you have to be to believe that?)


The catch is that you cannot use any opinions by anyone.  You must have absolute evidence that is clear, leaves nothing to the imagination, irrefutable, has no other plausibilities and is physical. No inferences, implications, assumptions, nor projections of belief are allowed.
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Oicurmtoyoy
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Re: Nylon Eating Bacteria So I watched a video
Reply #77 - Dec 3rd, 2010 at 10:31am
 
Like I said, give me your definition of the word "species". It clearly differs from the common definition, if you conciser bacteria a species. I don't have to show you a bacteria that evolved into something other than a bacteria, until you demonstrate that bacteria is a species, and not a domain. Explain why a domain is nonsense.

And there is a way to see if a mutation took place. DNA sequencing. Like I said before, they used DNA sequencing to see the change that allowed for digestion of nylon.

Stop asking me for evidence that I've already provided. Remember, you invited me to this forum, so you have to refute my evidence to a degree that I find acceptable. To do that, you must explain the distinction between assumptions and reasoning, and why the basis for evolution is the former and not the latter.

Basically, you have to explain why something is so, instead of just asking people to take your word.
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Re: Nylon Eating Bacteria So I watched a video
Reply #78 - Dec 16th, 2010 at 6:22pm
 
Oicurmtoyoy wrote on Dec 3rd, 2010 at 10:31am:
Like I said, give me your definition of the word "species". It clearly differs from the common definition, if you conciser bacteria a species. I don't have to show you a bacteria that evolved into something other than a bacteria, until you demonstrate that bacteria is a species, and not a domain. Explain why a domain is nonsense.

And there is a way to see if a mutation took place. DNA sequencing. Like I said before, they used DNA sequencing to see the change that allowed for digestion of nylon.

Stop asking me for evidence that I've already provided. Remember, you invited me to this forum, so you have to refute my evidence to a degree that I find acceptable. To do that, you must explain the distinction between assumptions and reasoning, and why the basis for evolution is the former and not the latter.

Basically, you have to explain why something is so, instead of just asking people to take your word.


You are under the impression that these people you trust actually understand what is going on. They don't and that is clear. They can only project their beliefs on what they think is happening.

They have no idea where these "differences" come from.

There is no such thing as "Random" in science. This concept comes from the fact that people are not capable of understanding even 10 things happening at the same instant and all the inteactions taking place, so they make up a term called "random". Random, violates the first law of science: The Law Of Cause And Result.

Because they have no idea where these differences come from in the DNA that they see, they make up terms to fit the belief in Evodelusionism religion. They are constantly redefining scientific terms to fit an idiotic belief that humans evolved from fish.

If you don't know where this delusional nonsense is taking you, then you are not in control of your mind.  You are owned by those whom you believe in.  Why would you want to be the lay down bitch for some other people's nonsense?

If these fools were to actually do the work to check the DNA of all the ancestors these "random" DNA changes would be shown to be traits passed down and nothing more.

DNA is not the cause of itself.  It is a result of deeper level of programming.
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Oicurmtoyoy
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Re: Nylon Eating Bacteria So I watched a video
Reply #79 - Dec 19th, 2010 at 1:13pm
 
If people trust them, then it's obviously not clear, is it? Maybe you should demonstrate how they don't know what's happening, instead of asking me to take your word for it. What ever happened to "my dad told me not to believe anything anyone tells me".

The difference obviously come from a mutation, we know they happen, and it is by far the best explanation. Again Occam's razor.

You do understand that randomness does exist within practical terms, don't you? For example, if I roll a die and it lands on 3, you'd say that was random. Really it's a combination of several factors, but they're all incalculable, especially within a practical time frame, thus it is considered random. In other words, we humans have no way of knowing the outcome, and there isn't much of a pattern, thus it is considered random. Similarly, mutations are unpredictable and incalculable to us, thus they are considered random.

We know exactly what happens, a mutation. We don't have to see the mutation happening, to prove it happened, in the same way we don't need to see a murder happen to prove it happened. You say, they are constantly redefining scientific terms to fit an idiotic belief that humans evolved from fish, but you've failed to give an example. You have a tendency to do that.

We know that mutations are traits that are passed down, we accept that. The fact is that traits accumulate, it's not a difficult concept to grasp.

I noticed you also said"DNA is not the cause of itself. It is a result of deeper level of programming." I don't recall anyone saying that DNA caused it's self. From what I've seen, you refrain from talking about actual facts, because you don't know the facts. Most, if not all, of your statements have either been vast oversimplifications of evolutions, or outright falsehoods.

I know I'll probably regret this, but would you be so kind as to describe to me what you think the process of evolution is?
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Re: Nylon Eating Bacteria So I watched a video
Reply #80 - Dec 19th, 2010 at 7:39pm
 
Oicurmtoyoy wrote on Dec 19th, 2010 at 1:13pm:
If people trust them, then it's obviously not clear, is it? Maybe you should demonstrate how they don't know what's happening, instead of asking me to take your word for it. What ever happened to "my dad told me not to believe anything anyone tells me".

The difference obviously come from a mutation, we know they happen, and it is by far the best explanation. Again Occam's razor.


Prove that anyone can know the cause of these differences from absolute evidence that is irrefutable, obvious and clear to all.

What is only clear is there are "differences".  Where these come from is not known. So it is impossible to use religious terms like "mutation", based solely on belief, on them.

Do you even understand the meaning and etymology of the term "mutation".  It means basically a change.  If there is no way to prove it is a change from any genetic information in past of the genetic lineage of the creature, then it cannot be classified with any term other than "difference from the parents DNA" or "Different than the DNA was viewed originally".   It is possible that precise and programmed DNA differences are programmed to show up by a logic that you nor anyone understands.  (Random = death in DNA) Normally when people don't understand things and they have positions of authority they will make up words that sound like they know what is going on.  "mutation" is one of those words, like "random". 

Oicurmtoyoy wrote on Dec 19th, 2010 at 1:13pm:
You do understand that randomness does exist within practical terms, don't you? For example, if I roll a die and it lands on 3, you'd say that was random. Really it's a combination of several factors, but they're all incalculable, especially within a practical time frame, thus it is considered random. In other words, we humans have no way of knowing the outcome, and there isn't much of a pattern, thus it is considered random. Similarly, mutations are unpredictable and incalculable to us, thus they are considered random.


You are confusing apparent random with actual random.   Apparent random means that we don't have the tools to predict complicated events, so we call them random.

I did a whole long drawn out description of a way to determine the toss of a coin exactly every time it is thrown.  All you really have to have is the necessary equipment to do the measurements with and the calculations with.  It is not that difficult compared to other things. But who, in their right mind, would spend millions upon millions of dollars to determine the outcome of a coin toss or throwing the dice?  After you spent all that money and proved it was possible, the game of craps would be banned from the casinos and the coin toss would never be on the foot ball field again.

In DNA there are only organic structures that rely on stability and accuracy for cell development.  Without that the outcome is only like cancer, cell development out of control and that only leads to death.  If one base pair being messed up (ONE!) by some ACTUAL, NOT MYSTICAL event in the past has caused sickle cell anemia what would happen if 100 to 150 base pairs were really random?  The answer is obvious: DEATH and only death. 

The information that causes the DNA to be different between parents and offspring is UNKNOWN, it is not some random magical process.  The reason for any differences from the original is not known. PERIOD!

If you think that "random mutation" is a scientific term after this, there is no hope for you as a real scientist. It is part of a belief system, based upon human weakness.

From all my study on this in all the papers on "mutations", it is only the organisms desire to survive that is shown after birth takes place.  For instance in the study of cigarette smokers, the conclusion by the scientists who did the study is that the up to 30,000 differences (that were mistakenly called mutations) were shown clearly that the body was PURPOSELY AND INTELLIGENTLY PROGRAMMED AND trying to adapt to survive and only to survive the poisons from smoking. 



Oicurmtoyoy wrote on Dec 19th, 2010 at 1:13pm:
We know exactly what happens, a mutation. We don't have to see the mutation happening, to prove it happened, in the same way we don't need to see a murder happen to prove it happened. You say, they are constantly redefining scientific terms to fit an idiotic belief that humans evolved from fish, but you've failed to give an example. You have a tendency to do that.


All that can be witnessed is the "differences" and you can't call them "mutations" unless you can prove absolutely they are really changes from any of the ancestor's DNA!!

If you actually took the time to read this forum, I have answered that more than enough about terms that have been changed.  "mutation" is one of those.    Originally the scientific term referred to "Mutants" or people with genetics screwed up and 99% of the time they can't reproduce, so this never becomes part of the group that is normal and reproduces.  In real science before this crap religious mumbo jumbo took over, a mutation was a person or creature that was a freak.

The idea of "mutation" used in DNA to describe differences is to make it seem plausible that this is a cause of random magical OUT OF CONTROL positive "evolution" when it is just normal differences caused by the foundational genetic creature trying to survive as the same creature and make necessary adjustments to survive.  It calls up on already programmed functions to react to the environment as needed and it reverts when not needed as is seen in the Galapagos finches and in the Italian "wall lizard". Do you understand? 

Oicurmtoyoy wrote on Dec 19th, 2010 at 1:13pm:
We know that mutations are traits that are passed down, we accept that. The fact is that traits accumulate, it's not a difficult concept to grasp.

I noticed you also said"DNA is not the cause of itself. It is a result of deeper level of programming." I don't recall anyone saying that DNA caused it's self. From what I've seen, you refrain from talking about actual facts, because you don't know the facts. Most, if not all, of your statements have either been vast oversimplifications of evolutions, or outright falsehoods.

I know I'll probably regret this, but would you be so kind as to describe to me what you think the process of evolution is?


You are under the influence that evolution is some form of normal genetics over time that causes changes to creatures.

The term has been redefined again to give the "indoctrination" meaning to new students to get them brainwashed into eventually thinking that this leads to simple life forms can actually evolve into complex life forms with all the details that make improvements by accident.

The idea that fish can become human over some immense time by magical processes and mystical causes is the real definition of evolution. That is where this mystical nonsense leads people.  Do you realize that if you allow this process of indoctrination to take its full result (cause = indoctrination. result = delusional beliefs) you will believe that humans evolved from fish, even though there is absolutely no physical evidence of that.

If you were really objective, you would realize that not one single positive trait has been added to human kind ever.  All that has taken place is a degradation of the genome with more and more "genetic illnesses" showing up all the time as little defects enter the genome and takes it away from a healthy perfection.   This indicates a devolution into inferior and no improvements at all.  Once these environmental caused defects, hit the genome they do not go away, they get passed down.

I have genetically caused triggers in my genome that caused full onset adult diabetes (just like type 1) at 61 years old.  I am on full insulin with multiple injections daily. It was not caused by diet or anything because my diet has been the best you can get on earth.  Almost no sugar, fresh food, whole grains, no meat, nothing that is known to cause cancer or type 2 diabetes.

Both of my brothers have had amputations because they were unable to concur their compulsive high carbohydrate eating habits.

What you need to do is to not believe what others believe.  You must not conform for the sake of conforming because you will lose yourself and you may never get it back if you allow this to control you.  Only go with that which is proven absolutely to you, and not some nonsense beliefs of this cult like human emotional mental garbage.

There is no such science called "evolution".  It is not science, but is a mythological religion based on a deeply held belief that this makes sense, when it is illogical and based on an ideology that has no evidence to back it.

Listen to this video by Berlinski.  He has multiple degrees in science if that means anything to you.




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Re: Nylon Eating Bacteria So I watched a video
Reply #81 - Dec 19th, 2010 at 8:14pm
 
Oicurmtoyoy wrote on Dec 3rd, 2010 at 10:31am:
Like I said, give me your definition of the word "species". It clearly differs from the common definition, if you conciser bacteria a species. I don't have to show you a bacteria that evolved into something other than a bacteria, until you demonstrate that bacteria is a species, and not a domain. Explain why a domain is nonsense.


Domain is nonsense because it was introduced as a way to change the meaning of species to fit the belief.  Wanting to make "evolution" seem more real, they had to screw with the cladistic system to adjust it.  Bacteria used to be only two species and several strains of those species.  Now the nature of humans to force evolution on creatures that have never evolved they call every strain a (magically evolved) species.  There is no evolution with bacteria, because it has always remained as bacteria and has not become anything but bacteria. 

Oicurmtoyoy wrote on Dec 3rd, 2010 at 10:31am:
And there is a way to see if a mutation took place. DNA sequencing. Like I said before, they used DNA sequencing to see the change that allowed for digestion of nylon.

Stop asking me for evidence that I've already provided. Remember, you invited me to this forum, so you have to refute my evidence to a degree that I find acceptable. To do that, you must explain the distinction between assumptions and reasoning, and why the basis for evolution is the former and not the latter.

Basically, you have to explain why something is so, instead of just asking people to take your word.


Why do you take the word of people who are just making things up to fit a brainwashed belief?  I teach people to stop believing and to seek the truth.  I don't ask anyone to take my word on it. Everything I teach is common knowledge easy for you to verify if you have the balls to investigate away from the indoctrination.

If you only get your "education" from those with agendas to indoctrinate you into a belief system, then you are not free, and you are definitely not a scientist.
When they tell you that they are the only source of truth, you know it is a cult. When they tell you that in order for you to criticize our "science" you have to go through the indoctrination, you have to be naive.  I would never allow anyone to indoctrinate me in something so obviously full of beliefs that lack any form on normal use of the scientific methodology that I was taught and has never failed me in my work.   I work with functional science, that is repeatable. predictable and uses science that is obvious, real, and absolutely proven to work.

Whatever The theory of evolution is, it is not science.


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Re: Nylon Eating Bacteria So I watched a video
Reply #82 - Aug 2nd, 2012 at 6:27am
 
Bacteria does not evolve when it mutates. It remains as bacteria and does the same thing every time. It digests carbon based foods and makes enzymes. It has a foundational programming based on logic and reasoning.

Example. The nylonase. Every time the Japanese did the experiment with this flavobacterium it did the same thing.
In less than 9 generations it logically perfectly:'
1/ Made a duplicate gene. It chose this gene from all the possible locations on its genome.
2/ It made a frame shift mutation testing it for working.
3/ It made new start and stop codons to complete the new section of gene.

There is NO POSSIBLE WAY for this to be random. There is no mathmatical equation that can fit the purmutations necessary to have this happen by accident in 9 generations. There is no possible way for this to assemble itself from magical ideas.
It is programmed perfectly to do this.
9 generations is nothing in terms of "life".

According to Evolutionists it took 6 million years for "humans" HAR-1 gene to gain 18 mutataions. This whole thing is utterly ridiculous.

The human immune system works in a similar way. It is programmed to respond to new pathogens and make mutations to cover that particular pathogen and to kill it.

The foundation of this is the immune system which according to all the data we have the immune system has only degenerated. This is why over 66% of people have immune degeneration diseases.

When you watch this video it explains exactly why. There is absolutely no way for any net positive evolution to take place.

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Re: Nylon Eating Bacteria So I watched a video
Reply #83 - Sep 20th, 2012 at 10:24pm
 
Bacteria can only be designed by the evidence and how science really works. There is no possible way for a non-logical creature to understand the needs to change in the first place. There is no "reason" for inanimate un-directed things to adapt at all. This is the first logical conundrum for Evotards to over come. Why does it "want" to adapt? Waht is the motivating force for survival? There is no reason for survival UNLESS it is programmed in to the species.
Next it does this in less than 9 generations. 1/ Makes a duplicate gene. 2/ Performs a frame shift mutation while maintaining the original ability to eat existing foods. 3/ It adjusts the frame shift and put in new start and stop codons in excactly the perfect spot.
The odds of that happening in 9 generations is nearly infinite in the numbers. It is in the 1 to 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, or more odds. This only shows intelligent design.

Bacteria is designed to adapt to whatever foods it can digest.
The fact that this flavobacterium did this repeatedly and the shortest time was 9 generations destroys any non directed random ideas. And bacteria has never grown new cells with new functions as required for evolution of simple life into complex and the oldest most ancient strains of bacteria are far more fit and strong. Goto "evolutionforum.info" and read the thread there.
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