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Here comes another one. (Read 20303 times)
bevolve
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Here comes another one.
Oct 23rd, 2011 at 2:16pm
 
So I got your invite, and here I am. I would like to approach this a little differently than you may be used to, so that we may be able to have a conversation without devolving into each writing huge responses responding selectively to what the previous one said and obscuring the point.

Therefore, my suggestion is that we start with one specific point, deliberate on that, and then, and then move on if we can come to a conclusion.

I would like to start by calling under question your previous statement: "it would take at least 51% positive mutations for evolution to occur".

As concisely as possible, can you explain your reasoning behind this statement?
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Reply #1 - Oct 23rd, 2011 at 3:33pm
 
bevolve wrote on Oct 23rd, 2011 at 2:16pm:
So I got your invite, and here I am. I would like to approach this a little differently than you may be used to, so that we may be able to have a conversation without devolving into each writing huge responses responding selectively to what the previous one said and obscuring the point.

Therefore, my suggestion is that we start with one specific point, deliberate on that, and then, and then move on if we can come to a conclusion.

I would like to start by calling under question your previous statement: "it would take at least 51% positive mutations for evolution to occur".

As concisely as possible, can you explain your reasoning behind this statement?

Thank you for coming by.

I never allow anyone to tell me how to respond.  People always want to control the conversation to preserve their beliefs.

I just give the absolute facts and teach people how to get free, literally, how to learn how to learn. 

Here is the reason.  The original definition of evolution was and still is all about ONLY advancement leading to the eventual evolution of complex creatures from less complex and less fit.  This is the fantasy of this mythological religion.

In order to have any advancement with added complexity,added intelligence, increased fitness and more ability to survive. You would need to have 51% positive mutations that would add this  magical evolution to any creature.  You could be more precise, and say 50.0000001% as a start. But 51% means that increase could be possible.

Since the nature of mutations do not ever allow this as a possibility, and only shows genetic losses in complex, meaning multi- cellular creatures, then there is no science of evolution.

The real science of genetics has nothing in common with this religious idea that humans evolved from fish as is the faith and belief of the religion of evolution.

Evolution:  "that theory which sees in the history of all things organic and inorganic a development from simplicity to complexity, a gradual advance from a simple or rudimentary condition to one that is more complex and of a higher character."  Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language.

In every instance of speciation there is genetic loss, less ability to adapt, and less fitness, more finite foods, less ability
to adapt to the environment and the eventual extinction as is seen in all the extinct creatures.

This magical idea of evolution has been destroyed by the evidence in DNA.

For the last 150 years or so, people have believed in this religious myth, and have forced this belief on academia as a pop cultural pseudo science that is accepted as if it was real, because so many believe in it.

They believe because it is indoctrinated into their minds by continual brainwashing. TV, peers, teachers, parents all believe in this magical nonsense, but it is nothing but faith and belief forced on the world as any religious ideology.

The concept of "It must be real, if all the scientists accept it." is one of the oldest piles of human faith and belief forms there is.

I don't know how to be more concise, but DNA is absolutely irrefutable physical evidence that only shows genetic loss, pseudo genes, atavism, and poor cell replication from incorrect DNA codons, that produce incorrect and less functional cells.

The nature of reality is that when a mutation survives it weakens the species.  It has never added any complexity brain capacity, nor health, longevity, nor any of the magical ideas of "evolution".

Once you realize this then all the other evidence fits perfectly with it. 

In real science we wait for the absolutely irrefutable, obvious, clear, physical evidence and then make conclusions. 

In real science we do not just force beliefs on evidence.

This Video is based on evidence that cannot be denied. It is how mutations actually work.

It is impossible for mutations to lend a net positive result, when they are between 70% according to the beliefs of published accredited PhD's to 99.9% deleterious, based on actual evidence.
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Re: Here comes another one.
Reply #2 - Oct 23rd, 2011 at 3:43pm
 
You know I have watched the full video and still disagree with you. I cant imagine how keeping your comments a little more concise and too the point would in any way hinder your ability to convince.

As for my question, you said

"In order to have any advancement with added complexity,added intelligence, increased fitness and more ability to survive. You would need to have 51% positive mutations that would add this  magical evolution to any creature.  You could be more precise, and say 50.0000001% as a start. But 51% means that increase could be possible."

I would like an explanation for why you believe this to be so. The reason I disagree with this stems from my education on the process of natural selection. Mutated genes that lead to bad effects on the fitness of an individual will be less likely to be passed on than those genes that are beneficial. Therefore, over time, they will disappear from the gene pool as individuals carrying those genes die without reproducing. The occasional beneficial mutated gene will propagate more successfully and therefore become more common in the gene pool.
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Reply #3 - Oct 24th, 2011 at 6:22am
 
Natural selection only results in a gradual, net, loss of gene functions and weakening of cells. Human selection does the same thing with domestic animals. 

DNA is absolutely clear on this.  And the nature of mutations does not allow magical fixes or improvements by any stretch of the imagination.  The mechanics of mutations only shows screwed up genes in thousands of times greater than any believed positive mutation. PERIOD.

This is shown in ALL the evidence we have. If you want to bring up some specific evidence then we can discuss that. I have a deep knowledge of this.

The "odds" of any positive mutation makes evolution a fantasy.  The real science of genetics, the passing of genetic information, is not evolution.

With every mutation that survives it propagates in the species to weaken it by a HUGE margin over any positive mutations.

I don't know how people can be caught into this religious ideology and not know it is nothing but faith and belief projected on evidence. 

Continual repetition of the mantra "evolution is real" over and over does not make it real. 

In every species that I have checked out the oldest as best as we can relatively figure was more fit.

There is no evolution from simple to complex.  The fact that DNA only shows genetic losses and the absolute nature of mutations.

When you drive your car into a tree, then drive into another tree does it fix itself? That is the logic of evolution.

There has never been any observed single celled creature that has shown even the slightest evolution, but people think it is real.

To put it concisely;  Where is your absolutely irrefutable physical evidence that ANY creature has evolved into more complex? 

I would gladly show you how this really works in real science.



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Reply #4 - Oct 24th, 2011 at 8:03am
 
Evidence for evolution can be seen quite clearly in the cause for our need to continually create new and different antibiotics and the like. When the drug Azythromycin was first developed, it was a last resort, kill-everything antibiotic. Now it is much less effective. In fact, when I recently had pneumonia, the doctor prescribed it to my as the first option. Bacteria evolution is accelerated so greatly by the addition of such a strong selection pressure, we can see the changes year by year.
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Reply #5 - Oct 25th, 2011 at 12:09am
 
bevolve wrote on Oct 24th, 2011 at 8:03am:
Evidence for evolution can be seen quite clearly in the cause for our need to continually create new and different antibiotics and the like. When the drug Azythromycin was first developed, it was a last resort, kill-everything antibiotic. Now it is much less effective. In fact, when I recently had pneumonia, the doctor prescribed it to my as the first option. Bacteria evolution is accelerated so greatly by the addition of such a strong selection pressure, we can see the changes year by year.


Bacteria does not evolve.  It remains the same exact single celled creature and it is designed to adapt.  Bacteria has complex programming designed in it to adapt to survive. This is obvious by observation.

All bacteria does is eat and make enzymes. It has no complex functions.

In order to show evolution it must gain in cells and these nonexistent new cells must perform new functions.

Bacteria is used as a smoke screen to fill people's minds with delusions and project this idea on the rest of the life forms.

Comparing bacteria to humans is like comparing Hydrogen to Lead and say they are the same thing, because they have electrons.

Bacteria is DESIGNED to adapt to any digestible carbon based "food" it can find in its environment.

It will do things like duplicate genes in order to experiment with the new gene while it is able to eat the existing foods.
Then it can adjust the new genes as soon as they become functional. It places new start and stop codons in this new gene.
It does this in a few generations as well.

None of which is possible by accident, by the way.

If you read my information it is never considering bacteria because bacteria is not a complex, multi cellular creature.

All complex creatures lose genes (lose cells), have atavisms, and screwed up cell production over time.  This is what DNA shows without a doubt.

A single celled creature either lives or dies.

A multiple celled creature can exist with screwed up cells. 

Bacteria cannot exist with screwed up cells, because it only has ONE cell.

The obvious isn't obvious until it is obvious.

Knowing the bacteria adapts to foods and it learns to eat and survive no matter what should be information used to stop making new varieties by human stupidity and activities that promote the death of millions of people eventually from bacteria that at some point will not die from any "medicines".
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Reply #6 - Oct 25th, 2011 at 7:04am
 
It is all well and good to assert any given belief that you may have, but in a scientific view, this is meaningless unless it is backed up by concrete evidence.
When I say evidence, I don't mean in the way one might be tempted to misuse the word. To say "DNA is evidence", or "Observation is evidence" is to fall well short of the scientific standard for evidence. Empirical evidence is presented by way of a scientific report of an experiment.

For example, when I explain that bacteria undergo accelerated evolution when under the selection pressure of antibiotics, I can find a multitude of recorded experiments that back this up. I have linked to two particularly relevant papers below.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839888/?tool=pmcentrez
http://aac.asm.org/cgi/content/full/42/9/2215?view=long&pmid=9736537

These are very worth reading, as they demonstrate concrete, observable evidence for evolution.
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Reply #7 - Oct 25th, 2011 at 2:33pm
 
bevolve wrote on Oct 25th, 2011 at 7:04am:
It is all well and good to assert any given belief that you may have, but in a scientific view, this is meaningless unless it is backed up by concrete evidence.
When I say evidence, I don't mean in the way one might be tempted to misuse the word. To say "DNA is evidence", or "Observation is evidence" is to fall well short of the scientific standard for evidence. Empirical evidence is presented by way of a scientific report of an experiment.

For example, when I explain that bacteria undergo accelerated evolution when under the selection pressure of antibiotics, I can find a multitude of recorded experiments that back this up. I have linked to two particularly relevant papers below.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839888/?tool=pmcentrez
http://aac.asm.org/cgi/content/full/42/9/2215?view=long&pmid=9736537

These are very worth reading, as they demonstrate concrete, observable evidence for evolution.


Just because the word "evolution" is used does not make it evolution. 
Again. The only definition of evolution that counts is this one. This is the original definition of evolution.
There is nothing in bacteria adapting to show any form of evolution. 
I have studied this longer than you have. 





Evolution:  "that theory which sees in the history of all things organic and inorganic a development from simplicity to complexity, a gradual advance from a simple or rudimentary condition to one that is more complex and of a higher character."  Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language.

The Linski experiment shows no evolution either. The bacteria in the test did not gain in cells, did not evolve. It remained as bacteria and does what bacteria does.

Using the term "evolution" by anyone who is promoting this religious idea and then tries to tie into it normal genetic adaptation of bacteria as some form of evolution is not science. It is religious, not based on reality.

It is forcing ideology on evidence.

There is no such science as evolution. There is no evolution in this world.

Repeating religious slogans over and over and over and over, until the "student" thinks it is real IS NOT SCIENCE.

Now where is your experiment that proves evolutionary pressure causing "evolution" in which bacteria gains in cells with independent functions of those "cells".


Where is your experiment proving that simple life can evolve into extremely complex, and show me the exact method by which these or this experiment(s) was/were done?

There has never been any experiment that even suggests that evolution is possible, yet people believe for no other reason than wishful thinking and popular religious beliefs.

There is no evidence for evolution.

Do not use the bacteria again, because we are done with that.

Show me the absolutely irrefutable physical evidence of human evolution, for example.

This evidence cannot contain any inferences, implications, opinions from experts.  It must be obvious.

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Reply #8 - Oct 25th, 2011 at 4:25pm
 
Your definition of evolution is incorrect. I suggest you consult a textbook on evolutionary biology for one that is more accurate.  Here is the definition from biology-online.org:

Definition

noun, plural: evolutions

(1) The change in genetic composition of a population over successive generations, which may be caused by natural selection, inbreeding, hybridization, or mutation.

(2) The sequence of events depicting the evolutionary development of a species or of a group of related organisms; phylogeny.


As you can see, it says nothing about simple-to-complex. While this is one part of it, it is by no means limited to that. Evolution is a change in genetic composition. I think you are confusing the idea a little bit with speciation, which is certainly forgivable. Science can be confusing.

On that point, in science - especially in biology- it is not always the case that a proof or example of something will be simple and one-dimensional enough for the average layperson to understand. Science builds upon itself, so it often requires significant background knowledge to fully understand a new concept.
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Reply #9 - Oct 26th, 2011 at 12:41am
 
I want you to stick with the real, original, definition I gave you.
This is the original definition.  This is ALL we are discussing here.

When a cloud of nonsense is piled together and called science, why do you believe?

I have seen, studied and I don't believe, because there has never been any conclusive evidence that any simple life has ever evolved. Yet, with brainwashing, indoctrination and hanging out with people who claim to be scientists and are perpetrating this nonsense is how you got this way.


The point is: There is no evolution.
There is no bioligical process or mechanism for evolution,
And not one creature has "evolved".

If you were to look at the evidence without the repeated mantras of faith, it is clear as can be, without any doubts PROVEN NOW, as absolutely irrefutable. There is no evolution.

I have watched this religious ideology since the 1960s and have watched every stage of its infiltration of academia.

I have watched as the data was "fixed" to fit the belief and then a new piece of evidence becomes, obviously contrary. Then the new piece of evidence is fixed to fit the religion.

Then these retards changed the definition sometime in the 1960's in text books.  Changing the definition allows natural biological events to be called "evolution".
If you don't know this, you do now.



Changing the foundational scientific definitions is the way that this mythological cult of ignorance operates.  Just like any religion with no value.

Making up words that are repeated over and over and over to little children in school is a form of child mental molestation.

Teaching children that absolute evidence is not required for belief is a religious idea.  It is not scientific at all.

Now where is your absolutely irrefutable evidence for evolution?

Your, "background knowledge" is background of faith and beleif drummed into your head by these retards.

Only a genetically weak person, like a trusting child,  falls for mythology in academia.  It has been going on in academia for thousands of years.

My parents taught me to never believe anyone on anything, but to find out what is really going on. That was the greatest gift they gave me.





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Reply #10 - Oct 26th, 2011 at 5:57am
 
It is very difficult to free yourself from human beliefs based on faith. This is especially true when you put your name on them, publish information from the perspective of being an expert or from just declaring your baptism in this religion in public.
When you teach this crap to children, you simply put the nail on your intellectual coffin so to speak.  You will then never admit you were a fool to believe in this HEMG.

Since when is having a large number of believers a form of evidence? 

The need to belong, to get a degree, to get a paycheck, to get prestige, to get a wife, to get anything that you believe requires your surrender to this myth, is how this religious garbage is perpetuated.

Only the very intelligent and free thinkers do not fall for mythological human emotionally driven garbage.

Most just lay down for the "program" and accept it as real, with out ever checking if the data is true or not.  "After all everybody believes in evolution."

Religions use implications, assumptions based on programming, religious slogans that have no experimental data,  faith and belief.  This is why I know this is a type of mythological religion. 

I have checked out every piece of data used to inflict this garbage on humanity and there is no verifiable obvious evidence.  It is a fantasy put together with religious slogans and believed because humans are afraid to realize the truth about themselves, ALWAYS.

They would rather think that humanity is improving, which is a lie, and getting smarter, not true either.  They certainly do not want to realize that what they do is causing our descendants to have short miserable lives, full of fear and ignorance even more so than now.

Right now, humans are born, and humans suffer in ignorance. They put on veils of superstition to hide themselves from the truth. We are in a condition of extreme delusions and horrible suffering on this planet and evolution just helps to make it worse.

Humans are destroying the planet and their own genome by not following any genetic information correctly to stop the constant degradation from modern man made mutagens.

Using genetics as a way to cover up this HEMG and cloud over the intent of this religious garbage is what you need to see.

There is no evolution from simple to complex. There is absolutely no evidence for it and all the real evidence we have shows just the opposite.  DNA is absolutely irrefutable evidence of only genetic degradation. 

The ancient parents of any genus was far more fit than the present speciated descendants.
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Reply #11 - Oct 26th, 2011 at 9:33am
 
The reason science works is because it changes with new evidence. When ideas about a given subject change, it doesn't mean that the scientific method is worthless, it just means we aren't finished yet.

Once again, I see no reason to believe what you have written is the original definition, and I contend that it doesn't matter anyways. However, I would appreciate it if you could cite your source for this particular definition, as I have been unable to find it anywhere.
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Reply #12 - Oct 26th, 2011 at 1:34pm
 
bevolve wrote on Oct 26th, 2011 at 9:33am:
The reason science works is because it changes with new evidence. When ideas about a given subject change, it doesn't mean that the scientific method is worthless, it just means we aren't finished yet.

Once again, I see no reason to believe what you have written is the original definition, and I contend that it doesn't matter anyways. However, I would appreciate it if you could cite your source for this particular definition, as I have been unable to find it anywhere.


Science does not work when it ignores the obvious.

It is a "nice" idea that humans want to believe they are improving, but the evidence is just the opposite.

All creatures are heading towards eventual extinction.  Humans are at the head of the pack along with chimps, bengal tigers, gorillas, orangutans, and many others.

Extinction is the end result of "evolution". That is why there is no evolution.

Science is a bunch of believers who get paid to perpetuate beliefs. They are the guardians of their screwed up idea of truth. And as all guardians of human truths they screw up everything they do.

Protecting their jobs and perpetuating myths is better than the truth.  Most people are afraid of the truth, and so human lives are being destroyed because of this religious crap.

There is no science in delusions.

Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language.  From the 1960's
I have this book at my home in Colorado.

Science does not operate as some objective group of people who are seeking the truth.

It is a group of people protecting their jobs.
They don't give a crap about the truth.

I make my living with real science. This evolution crap is detrimental to the human species.

Humans are continuing to make more and more mutagens that destroy the human genome in the name of freedom, sexual freedom, chemical freedom, and weak lifestyles that use toxic chemicals.

If we don't stop the erosion soon, there will not be any good genetics left to mix up and fix this.  The only thing that will fix this is for the original Genetic Engineer who made us to come and correct all of our screw ups.

We are too stupid, and genetically lacking in the mental ability,  now to fix this. 

The last of the cleaner genetic trail is pretty much gong.  The odds are 1 out of 1 that you have a genetic defect, your children, your wife, your mother, father, cousins, all the people living now are genetically screwed up. 
Go do a study on the genetic diseases we have.  Look at all of them, and you will see yourself in the list.

Evolution is a fantasy that allows humans to screw up their own DNA and pass on more and more diseases, shorter lives and lots of suffering in ignorance from lack of intelligence.

If you  support this crap and teach it, you are supporting the suffering of all our descendants and helping to speed up extinction.

That is what this religious crap produces. Ignorance is no excuse.  Your indoctrination into this crap is not an excuse. 

If you support this crap, you are guilty of major bad karma.  You basically, worship suffering and death in this religion.

Now, where is your absolutely irrefutable evidence that humans are evolving, getting smarter, better, more healthy?

Am I starting to get through?

The Truth is not for weaklings.
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Reply #13 - Oct 26th, 2011 at 2:23pm
 
You are simply dead wrong as to what the theory of evolution is. Nobody thinks that humans are in any short time frame becoming smarter and more healthy through the process of evolution.
The concept of evolution by natural selection is not a "nice idea". Unfortunately, the entirety of the natural world exists in a constant state of fighting for continued existence. That is natural selection. Those individuals less able to adapt to new circumstance die, while those more able survive and reproduce. Improvement has nothing to do with it. It is survival.

To arbitrarily choose an outdated definition from a random dictionary and hold to it dogmatically regardless of new information is intellectually weak.
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Reply #14 - Oct 27th, 2011 at 1:07am
 
bevolve wrote on Oct 26th, 2011 at 2:23pm:
You are simply dead wrong as to what the theory of evolution is. Nobody thinks that humans are in any short time frame becoming smarter and more healthy through the process of evolution.
The concept of evolution by natural selection is not a "nice idea". Unfortunately, the entirety of the natural world exists in a constant state of fighting for continued existence. That is natural selection. Those individuals less able to adapt to new circumstance die, while those more able survive and reproduce. Improvement has nothing to do with it. It is survival.

To arbitrarily choose an outdated definition from a random dictionary and hold to it dogmatically regardless of new information is intellectually weak.


It doesn't matter your religious beliefs, and slogans. "fighting for survival".  Creatures need to eat and they have compulsions to breed. That is not "fighting" for survival.
If they don't eat they die. If they can't reproduce they go extinct as is the case with millions of creatures already.
Humans are just in line for extinction as all creatures are.
As soon as the mutations destroy the ability to exist....gone.

There are over 4600 known genetic defects that cause genetic diseases in humans. That does not include those that just have weakened our organs, muscle tissue and brain capacity. There are many really stupid people on this planet and the numbers of morons is rising with each generation.

I see that you are not reading anything I am posting.

It is your ego and evodelusion glasses that interfere with understanding.

There is not such thing as evolution.

This human garbage religious mythology is put in a large basket of faith and belief filled partially with some real science of genetics.

The idea of the Evodelusionists is to put this idea of life evolving from simple to complex in the middle of normal genetics. Then keep slipping this repeated mantra into your brain, with you thinking it is real, because it is so compelling to just lay down disregard your objective reasoning and believe this crap.

By the time you are fully brainwashed, you will believe any crap they teach you.
The end of this is the idea that we are related to fish. That we evolved from fish. ...?? I mean, how stupid do you have to be to believe that human religious garbage?

You really need to listen and watch my videos on how this and all crap religious are brainwashed into people.
The biggest lie people tell themselves is that they are rational.  You are emotionally controlled by your needs. The only reason you believe this is because of your weaknesses and needs to conform, to be accepted and to get your degree, money; all emotional crap reasons, not even close to rational.
Once you declare you baptism in public for some religious garbage, your ego is fully in control of your life, and you are in a prison of ignorance.  If you let this crap control you, you will go all the way to death with your delusions fully in control.

I am sorry for you. Really.  I wish you were free of this crap, but it is your self imposed mental prison. Others have gotten out of this cult of human emotional mental garbage.  So can you.

I can tell you are screwed up because you speak about "science" with "reverence" as if it was your god.
This crap degrades you and the scientific community.





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