GoodScienceForYou Neutral Evolution Forum - There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.

GoodScienceForYou

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There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Jan 24^th, 2010 at 11:19am

Real science and real scientists should never make assumptions about anything. It is not science, but projection of belief.

Random is not a proven or even tested by the scientific methodology as even a scientific principle in the physical world of mass, momentum,and interactions between organic life. There is only cause and results or cause and effect.

There is no science without forming an experiment to show your hypothesis. So far no scientist has ever been able to show random in the physical world (no experiments show this). In real science there is only energy, mass, in motion and the reactions on these actions. That can never be random, by the laws of physics: "For ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction".
The first law of all science is Cause and Result or Cause and Effect. Without this there is no science. In order to use science there must be cause and effect. It is the most fundamental premise of all science.

This law negates any possibility of random in the physical world. Every event, action, reaction, chemical reaction, mass, momentum, force, and all the sciences on this earth operate ONLY on Cause and Effect.

Because the human mind is too weak to understand all the causes and effects, they make up religious ideas to calm their human fears on things they can't possible understand, as in all religious dogma.

There can NEVER be random events in the physical world, because once energy is expressed it can only follow the laws of physics or genetics, as it transfers and propagates energy, mass, EMF (all the phenomenon in physics), and genetic information that has the external expression in DNA interactions into the world.

The only possible use of the term random is in pure mathematics, and in electronics where you only have one "thing" electrons and electron clouds (all the same "particle" with noting else) but this does not equate to random in the physical world.

If random were true, then evolution is not true, because it is impossible by the laws of physics to produce any form of evolution that could ever be random. It would have to be only a "genetic" chain reaction to events and that is never random. There is only genetics, and genetics is not random but a result of DNA,information and traits passed into the DNA then adaptation, and that is all. If you were to calculate the permutations of the probability of, for instance 3.2billion DNA base pairs and their "expression" as they form the foundation for human cells it could not happen in hundreds of trillions of years by "random" events.

This is mathematically proven facts. As we say the way the cards are dealt are they way they happened, but each event only happened one way and only one way, based only on what has already transpired. What is stated here cannot be falsified, therefore it remains as well tested and known scientific principles. We need to remove any ambiguous assumptions from genetic science.

Any form of the utter fantasy (in physical phenomenon) term in genetic structures is equal to immediate death. I have asked for these religious fanatics of Evodelusionism to volunteer for a scientific experiment and we can scramble 100 or so of their active and expressing DNA base pairs. Of course they have no courage of their belief, because they know I am right and they would die for sure. Or contract serious genetic diseases that result in death.

If you are not willing to risk your life, as I do, for the courage of your convictions, then it has no meaning and it shows you are just a delusional believer in fantasy.

So, if anybody tells you there is random events in the human genome, ask them to have their DNA scrambled to prove this, and see how far their beliefs will take them on that one.

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MajorAtheist

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #1 - Jan 24^th, 2010 at 12:06pm

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 24^th, 2010 at 11:19am:

Real science and real scientists should never make assumptions about anything. It is not science, but projection of belief.

Random is not a proven or even tested by the scientific methodology as even a scientific principle in the physical world of mass, momentum,and interactions between organic life. There is only cause and results or cause and effect.

There is no science without forming an experiment to show your hypothesis. So far no scientist has ever been able to show random in the physical world (no experiments show this). In real science there is only energy, mass, in motion and the reactions on these actions. That can never be random, by the laws of physics: "For ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction".
The first law of all science is Cause and Result or Cause and Effect. Without this there is no science. In order to use science there must be cause and effect. It is the most fundamental premise of all science.

This law negates any possibility of random in the physical world. Every event, action, reaction, chemical reaction, mass, momentum, force, and all the sciences on this earth operate ONLY on Cause and Effect.

Because the human mind is too weak to understand all the causes and effects, they make up religious ideas to calm their human fears on things they can't possible understand, as in all religious dogma.

There can NEVER be random events in the physical world, because once energy is expressed it can only follow the laws of physics or genetics, as it transfers and propagates energy, mass, EMF (all the phenomenon in physics), and genetic information that has the external expression in DNA interactions into the world.

The only possible use of the term random is in pure mathematics, and in electronics where you only have one "thing" electrons and electron clouds (all the same "particle" with noting else) but this does not equate to random in the physical world.

If random were true, then evolution is not true, because it is impossible by the laws of physics to produce any form of evolution that could ever be random. It would have to be only a "genetic" chain reaction to events and that is never random. There is only genetics, and genetics is not random but a result of DNA,information and traits passed into the DNA then adaptation, and that is all. If you were to calculate the permutations of the probability of, for instance 3.2billion DNA base pairs and their "expression" as they form the foundation for human cells it could not happen in hundreds of trillions of years by "random" events.

This is mathematically proven facts. As we say the way the cards are dealt are they way they happened, but each event only happened one way and only one way, based only on what has already transpired. What is stated here cannot be falsified, therefore it remains as well tested and known scientific principles. We need to remove any ambiguous assumptions from genetic science.

Any form of the utter fantasy (in physical phenomenon) term in genetic structures is equal to immediate death. I have asked for these religious fanatics of Evodelusionism to volunteer for a scientific experiment and we can scramble 100 or so of their active and expressing DNA base pairs. Of course they have no courage of their belief, because they know I am right and they would die for sure. Or contract serious genetic diseases that result in death.

If you are not willing to risk your life, as I do, for the courage of your convictions, then it has no meaning and it shows you are just a delusional believer in fantasy.

So, if anybody tells you there is random events in the human genome, ask them to have their DNA scrambled to prove this, and see how far their beliefs will take them on that one.

Same arguments that have been proven wrong over and over again. But tell me WHY can't you believe it? WHO will punish you if you do? HUH?

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MajorAtheist

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #2 - Jan 24^th, 2010 at 12:18pm

AGain, you have failed to even flip a coin. I wonder why? Is it because of the reality it will reveal.

Remember, you if you FAIL to flip a coin and recognize that a 'heads/tails' outcome is random between the two.......then of course you can deny that random exists. But sadly, it does not make you right, it only shows that you are unwilling to do the experiment in order to learn!

We know the outcomes are random because if you flip the coin tens times, you might end up with 5 tails and 5 heads. If you flip the coin ten more times, you might end up with 4 heads and 6 tails. And if you do it again, you might end up with 4 tails and 6 heads. The outcome is RANDOM no matter how you try to get around it!

But for some reason, you are too scared to believe this simple, rudimentary explanation. WATCH, I bet you can't, even though you CANT prove me wrong! WATCH!

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #3 - Jan 24^th, 2010 at 5:01pm

MajorAtheist wrote on Jan 24^th, 2010 at 12:18pm:

AGain, you have failed to even flip a coin. I wonder why? Is it because of the reality it will reveal.

Remember, you if you FAIL to flip a coin and recognize that a 'heads/tails' outcome is random between the two.......then of course you can deny that random exists. But sadly, it does not make you right, it only shows that you are unwilling to do the experiment in order to learn!

We know the outcomes are random because if you flip the coin tens times, you might end up with 5 tails and 5 heads. If you flip the coin ten more times, you might end up with 4 heads and 6 tails. And if you do it again, you might end up with 4 tails and 6 heads. The outcome is RANDOM no matter how you try to get around it!

But for some reason, you are too scared to believe this simple, rudimentary explanation. WATCH, I bet you can't, even though you CANT prove me wrong! WATCH!

I am fearless about showing you the truth. That is why I have been able to withstand the death threats, and all the attempted humiliation that seems to work on you.

Peer pressure, the need for a degree in college, and trying to impress people or just wanting to conform, has never been a reason to abandon the truth. But for weak people it is.

You are very low IQ if you don't understand that a coin toss is cause and effect and depends totally on the laws of physics. I lose patience with people who seem to be stuck groveling around in delusional beliefs and intellectual darkness.

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein

There is no random in the physical world. It is because you seem to be feeble, slow, weak minded and can't envision more than one event at a time, is no excuse for your ignorant statements.

You are too ignorant of science to even be on here. And any one who thinks a coin toss is random, is just to ignorant of science to be in any class that I would teach.

Cause and Effect is what all science works on, you are too weak and feeble minded to see all the causes fast enough, nor can you make the calculations fast enough to show all the physics involved in a "simple" coin toss. Because it is not simple.

The educational system is not even in the same league as I am in. That is why people call me the "teachers teacher".

I already showed you all of the possible causes for a coin to come up heads or tails. You are also to lazy to read this forum.

Here it is again, and ideas on how you would set up the experiment. I am sure that anyone with more than a room temperature IQ could set up this test.

From the instant in time the coin is flipped you can predict the outcome.

1/ Set up several high speed cameras to photograph at least 1/1000 to 1/2000 exposure of a second per frame and at least 1000 frames per second. You can use this data to make your calculations.

2/ Have the coin analyzed for mass and shape to a precision of 1/10,000 of an inch.

3/Measure all the matnetic forces in the room and apply that to where the coin is being tossed.

4/ Measure all the gravitational forces in the room.

5/ Using all the data you can think of, even the chemistry of the air, and apply physics and math to the coin toss, and you will be correct 100% of the time.

This is because there is no random. There is only the laws of physics and that means CAUSE AND RESULT.

If you are too stupid to realize that all of science, including your dumb ass theory rides on cause and effects, then you are not capable of being a scientists.

If you believe in random and cause and effect, you are technically insane, because one must be a delusion, as both thoughts negate one another. If one is true the other is not.

How can you miss that?

If you don't believe in cause and effect then you have no scientific intelligence. You are just a parrot of nonsense that you really don't understand even on a superficial level.

Just like when you force particles to hit purified uranium and it breaks the atomic structures into pure energy, is proven beyond all doubt.

If you are not aware that these are laws of physics that always work under the conditions at which they always work the same, then you have been trained out of reason and awareness of science laws.

When Neuton came up with his ideas, he had not allowed for conditions other than which he was testing. If he was alive today, I assure you that he would adjust these laws to fit alternative conditions in which they always work.

Just like the coin toss scientific experiment in which you can predict the results from the instant of the thumb lifting the coin. as long as you account for all the "causes and "effects" on the coin.

The human mind is not capable of understanding all the effects on a metal coin at one instant, so they find imperfections and account for that as "random" (a religious concept of magic and mystical causes), because of their feeble minds. When you can account for every possible energy, mass, momentum, force, and every subtle force on the experiment, including you standing there and having an effect on the experiment, then you will see what real science is. At any one instant, just in a car engine there are thousands of interactions taking place. Humans would call that random, if they could.

Simply because you do not understand absolutes and are just listening to other weak humans and believing them, is not going to help you to get beyond the limitations they inflict on your mind. The key to creative reason and objective thought is to stop putting human emotional mental garbage beliefs on reality.

You should never believe anyone and keep your mind only accepting things that have absolute evidence.

There is nothing wrong with entertaining thoughts, but if you believe them without ultimate and complete follow through, then you will be limiting your mind.

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #4 - Jan 25^th, 2010 at 6:15am

[quote=GoodScienceForYou]I am fearless about showing you the truth. [/quote]

Woah woah! You mean you posses the ability to spread out random outlandish material that's controversial to science? ON THE INTERNETZ NO LESS!! I never heard of ANYBODY with these kind of balls before; YOU sir, are the embodiment of courage!

Quote:

That is why I have been able to withstand the death threats, and all the attempted humiliation that seems to work on you.

Death threats my foot. If we were to believe anybody who comes crying to strangers that he got a death threat then the world would be saturated with prisons. At best some 12 year old told you to "DIAGF" (die in a grease fire) or some crap like that and you perceived that as a death threat? Seriously who would want to threaten some 60 year old dude who doesn't even understand the concepts he's preaching against?

I'm waiting to see if this post passes because last time I tried to comment on a youtube video of yours you had a filter turned on.

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #5 - Jan 25^th, 2010 at 6:34am

Hmm there's no edit function so I guess I'll have to double post.

[quote=GoodScienceForYou]You are very low IQ if you don't understand that a coin toss is cause and effect and depends totally on the laws of physics. I lose patience with people who seem to be stuck groveling around in delusional beliefs and intellectual darkness. [/quote]

Of course It's based on cause and effect but the outcome can't be predicted. You can calculate the amount of force you need to push the coin and where on the coin do you need to apply said force and what's the air friction going to be - but even so you can't predict accurately the side it's gonna fall on. All you can hope to do is assign a probability to each scenario.

You're confusing the term "random" with something outside of the realm of science. By this logic the electrons in an atom aren't real because they behave in a random fashion and their exact position can't be predicted.

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #6 - Jan 25^th, 2010 at 10:39pm

Slacker wrote on Jan 25^th, 2010 at 6:15am:

[quote=GoodScienceForYou]I am fearless about showing you the truth.

Woah woah! You mean you posses the ability to spread out random outlandish material that's controversial to science? ON THE INTERNETZ NO LESS!! I never heard of ANYBODY with these kind of balls before; YOU sir, are the embodiment of courage!

Quote:

That is why I have been able to withstand the death threats, and all the attempted humiliation that seems to work on you.

Death threats my foot. If we were to believe anybody who comes crying to strangers that he got a death threat then the world would be saturated with prisons. At best some 12 year old told you to "DIAGF" (die in a grease fire) or some crap like that and you perceived that as a death threat? Seriously who would want to threaten some 60 year old dude who doesn't even understand the concepts he's preaching against?

I'm waiting to see if this post passes because last time I tried to comment on a youtube video of yours you had a filter turned on. [/quote]

I really think you need to take a breath and just read what is on here. If you ever want to know why you are so limited, it is because of the limits imposed on your mind. You allowed this to happen. I have not.

My advice is to take advantage of this, but in order to do so, you must have some remaining of that person with the mind who existed before the brainwashing.

When you accept logical fallacies, because it is convenient, and the people who impose this crap on your mind seem like they know what they are talking about, is only a sign of your inability to guard your intellect from illogical crap.

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #7 - Jan 25^th, 2010 at 10:47pm

Slacker wrote on Jan 25^th, 2010 at 6:34am:

Hmm there's no edit function so I guess I'll have to double post.

[quote=GoodScienceForYou]You are very low IQ if you don't understand that a coin toss is cause and effect and depends totally on the laws of physics. I lose patience with people who seem to be stuck groveling around in delusional beliefs and intellectual darkness.

Of course It's based on cause and effect but the outcome can't be predicted. You can calculate the amount of force you need to push the coin and where on the coin do you need to apply said force and what's the air friction going to be - but even so you can't predict accurately the side it's gonna fall on. All you can hope to do is assign a probability to each scenario.

You're confusing the term "random" with something outside of the realm of science. By this logic the electrons in an atom aren't real because they behave in a random fashion and their exact position can't be predicted.

[/quote]

It is because the human mind is so weak and frail that it is unable to think of more than 100 events taking place at one time. I used to be able to do that and come to conclusions about the effects of each event on the other 99. I used to be able to concentrate for over three hours solid, non stop on a problem like that, but I am considered to be a genius.

Most people can barely concentrate for five minutes on one thing.

What you consider as "apparent random" or "pseudo random" is not random. As long as there is a cause for every movement of energy or mass or even thoughts, there is no random.

The coin toss is easier to predict than many things. All you have to do is set up the experiment to study all the causes and effects on the coin and you will have it.

I am sorry that this is so far over your ability to think.

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GoodScienceForYou YaBB Administrator Offline The obvious isn't obvious until it is obvious Posts: 1361 United States Gender:	Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics. Reply #8 - Jan 25^th, 2010 at 10:49pm And... Thanks for coming over. Take some time to read the posts on here. Really read them and you will benefit greatly from it. If you just react like most people who have succumbed to popular beliefs, then you get nothing. That is your choice.
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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #9 - Jan 26^th, 2010 at 3:35am

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 25^th, 2010 at 10:39pm:

I really think you need to take a breath and just read what is on here. If you ever want to know why you are so limited, it is because of the limits imposed on your mind. You allowed this to happen. I have not.

My advice is to take advantage of this, but in order to do so, you must have some remaining of that person with the mind who existed before the brainwashing.

The only brainwashing going on is here is you trying to convince people to forego their common sense in order to make room for your own brainwashing. I pity anyone who takes you in the least bit seriously.

Quote:

When you accept logical fallacies, because it is convenient, and the people who impose this crap on your mind seem like they know what they are talking about, is only a sign of your inability to guard your intellect from illogical crap.

Correct. Which is why I'm not very impressed with your pseudo science.

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #10 - Jan 26^th, 2010 at 3:50am

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 25^th, 2010 at 10:47pm:

It is because the human mind is so weak and frail that it is unable to think of more than 100 events taking place at one time. I used to be able to do that and come to conclusions about the effects of each event on the other 99. I used to be able to concentrate for over three hours solid, non stop on a problem like that, but I am considered to be a genius.

Most people can barely concentrate for five minutes on one thing.

There you go with the I'm a genius routine again. Why would it mater to anyone how smart you are, especially when you go telling us that we shouldn't submit to any figure of authority? So we shouldn't believe the real scientists just because they're smart but we should instead believe you because YOU're smart?

Yeah, just as I said in the other comment, you're not really interested in getting people to think for themselves, you just want them to think whatever you think.

Quote:

What you consider as "apparent random" or "pseudo random" is not random. As long as there is a cause for every movement of energy or mass or even thoughts, there is no random.

Apparent random-shmandom. And exactly by which criteria have you determined that mutations would have to happen in an absolute-random fashion, instead of an apparent random one? Maybe random in the case of these mutations is the same kind of random like when you shuffle a deck of cards.

Quote:

The coin toss is easier to predict than many things. All you have to do is set up the experiment to study all the causes and effects on the coin and you will have it.

Don't get hung up on the coin. How about a 50-side dice?

Quote:

I am sorry that this is so far over your ability to think.

Oh brother Roll Eyes

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #11 - Jan 26^th, 2010 at 7:25am

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 24^th, 2010 at 5:01pm:

MajorAtheist wrote on Jan 24^th, 2010 at 12:18pm:

But for some reason, you are too scared to believe this simple, rudimentary explanation. WATCH, I bet you can't, even though you CANT prove me wrong! WATCH!

I am fearless about showing you the truth.

WHAT?

And the TRUTH about the outcome of the coin toss is ONLY that it could land or heads or tails. Since either of these is a possibility, predicting the outcome in advance and only being right SOME of the time, proves the outcome is random(either heads or tails)...........depending on the physics that will be applied.

AGain, you are letting your emotions get in the way of what you CAN believe!

SEE how angry you get? This proves you are too emotional about it! Take a deep breath. Calm down.

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #12 - Jan 26^th, 2010 at 2:18pm

I don't get angry, this is what I do to help you. It is up to you to wake up and understand.

There are no magical causes, nor mystical creatures in science.
These things are religious in nature.

If you want to continue with relgious beliefs that is your problem not mine.

All I can do is tell you what is real from what is not. It is up to you to get past your brainwashing and prejudices not based in reality.

I do pity anyone who believes in magical processes, mystical ideas. I pity you. MajorAthiest, and Slacker.

You can do so much better than this crap.

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #13 - Jan 26^th, 2010 at 4:53pm

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 26^th, 2010 at 2:18pm:

I don't get angry, this is what I do to help you. It is up to you to wake up and understand.

There are no magical causes, nor mystical creatures in science.
These things are religious in nature.

If you want to continue with relgious beliefs that is your problem not mine.

All I can do is tell you what is real from what is not. It is up to you to get past your brainwashing and prejudices not based in reality.

I do pity anyone who believes in magical processes, mystical ideas. I pity you. MajorAthiest, and Slacker.

You can do so much better than this crap.

Again, not performing the experiment does not mean you are right!

Predict either heads or tails, flip the coin 50 times, record your results and when you realize that you were NOT 100% accurate.......its because the outcome is random and dependent upon the physics applied during said tosses!

Prove me wrong or you have no reason to not believe me!

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Re: There is no such thing as random mutations in genetics.
Reply #14 - Jan 26^th, 2010 at 6:52pm

MajorAtheist wrote on Jan 26^th, 2010 at 4:53pm:

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 26^th, 2010 at 2:18pm:

I don't get angry, this is what I do to help you. It is up to you to wake up and understand.

There are no magical causes, nor mystical creatures in science.
These things are religious in nature.

If you want to continue with relgious beliefs that is your problem not mine.

All I can do is tell you what is real from what is not. It is up to you to get past your brainwashing and prejudices not based in reality.

I do pity anyone who believes in magical processes, mystical ideas. I pity you. MajorAthiest, and Slacker.

You can do so much better than this crap.

Again, not performing the experiment does not mean you are right!

Predict either heads or tails, flip the coin 50 times, record your results and when you realize that you were NOT 100% accurate.......its because the outcome is random and dependent upon the physics applied during said tosses!

Prove me wrong or you have no reason to not believe me!

I might as well be communicating with a frog. You have no understanding of physics.

REPEAT; There are no magical or mystical reasons in science. By having a religious belief in "random" you negate yourself.

Do you also believe in "luck"?

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