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oh_noes Full Member Offline Seek Truth! Doubt those who find it. Posts: 175	Re: Randomness Reply #45 - Dec 12^th, 2009 at 5:56pm LMAO. Ok, then I will henceforth refer to random mutation as "unknown mutation". Now, go answer all the posts where we referenced random mutation, but substitute "unknown mutation".
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Re: Randomness
Reply #46 - Dec 12^th, 2009 at 6:04pm

oh_noes wrote on Dec 12^th, 2009 at 5:56pm:

LMAO.

Ok, then I will henceforth refer to random mutation as "unknown mutation".

Now, go answer all the posts where we referenced random mutation, but substitute "unknown mutation".

You cannot call it a "mutation" either. You cannot prove that it is any different than one of the ancestor's genetic DNA coding. You have nothing to go on except it is "different" and you can't even call it "changed", because that implies that you know it a change from the genealogy of the parents.

Implication and projection of belief is not allowed on any evidence. It is a law of science and scientific inquiry.

If you don't know ADMIT IT!

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Re: Randomness
Reply #47 - Dec 12^th, 2009 at 6:12pm

It doesn't matter if the mutation was present in an ancestor. If it was not present in a parent, but is present in the offspring, it is a mutation of the parents DNA, unless you can provide a mechanism for base pairs to be passed on without being in the parents genome.

The offsprings DNA is made up of a combination of the parents DNA, plus 150 differences. Those differnces are mutations, by definition. It doesn't matter if they were present in an ancestor, it's irrelevant.

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Re: Randomness
Reply #48 - Dec 12^th, 2009 at 6:51pm

oh_noes wrote on Dec 12^th, 2009 at 6:12pm:

It doesn't matter if the mutation was present in an ancestor. If it was not present in a parent, but is present in the offspring, it is a mutation of the parents DNA, unless you can provide a mechanism for base pairs to be passed on without being in the parents genome.

The offsprings DNA is made up of a combination of the parents DNA, plus 150 differences. Those differnces are mutations, by definition. It doesn't matter if they were present in an ancestor, it's irrelevant.

You don't seem to understand the obvious.

You cannot CANNOT make any implications on evolution if there is not proof of changes from the parents DNA lineage.

It is absolutely impossible for DNA to be random and there is no way to prove and "changes" unless you look back in the DNA of all the ancestors.

So it is not random and it is not mutations. It cannot be random and you have no idea the cause of the differences.

That is all you know. Anything else is crap.
Therefore there is absolutely no evidence of evolution in DNA.

There seems to be an apparent stability of the genetics of all species. If you look at the DNA down the line after the creature has lived for a while, there are minor adjustments to the environment, and beyond that they don't go any farther away from the whole of the genealogy. If they are forced to adapt to environments that they can't survive in they die out. That is why all you see is dead ends in the fossil record.

Therefore there is no such thing as Evolution. It is a fantasy.

No creature has ever broken the boundaries of their genetics. They remain the same basic creature or go extinct.

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oh_noes Full Member Offline Seek Truth! Doubt those who find it. Posts: 175	Re: Randomness Reply #49 - Dec 12^th, 2009 at 6:53pm So we can add branching hierachies to the list of things you don't get. Fair enough
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Re: Randomness
Reply #50 - Dec 12^th, 2009 at 9:11pm

oh_noes wrote on Dec 12^th, 2009 at 6:53pm:

So we can add branching hierachies to the list of things you don't get. Fair enough

You can only classify that which is living or you have DNA evidence on.
You cannot classify fossils with no DNA. That is ridiculous.

And any classification has to be verified by at least 100 people with no false evolution beliefs imposed on creatures.

That means; the whole thing has to be scratched and redone with absolute, scientific, real evidence and no opinions.

The nested "hierachies" of creatures you have no evidence on is fraud. Grin

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MarDuk

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Re: Randomness
Reply #51 - Dec 12^th, 2009 at 10:11pm

Quote:

You can only classify that which is living or you have DNA evidence on.
You cannot classify fossils with no DNA. That is ridiculous.

And any classification has to be verified by at least 100 people with no false evolution beliefs imposed on creatures.

That means; the whole thing has to be scratched and redone with absolute, scientific, real evidence and no opinions.

The nested "hierachies" of creatures you have no evidence on is fraud. Grin

What does any of this have to do with randomness?

Listen to me VERY CAREFULLY!
I believe that nothing can escape causality.
I am confident that the universe is deterministic. DNA replication differences are not random. They have causes.
Sometimes it is highly reactive chemicals.
Sometimes it is radiation.
Sometimes organelles bump the DNA polymerase.
Many other causes are possible, and DO happen.
It is a documented well-known scientific FACT that DNA replication IS imperfect because of these causes.
It is a documented well-known scientific FACT that the sequence of DNA a parent gives to a child will contain differences.
It is a documented well-known scientific FACT that these changes to DNA can happen WITHOUT negative effects on the organism.
It is a documented well-known scientific FACT that these changes can confer POSITIVE attributes in the organism.
These FACTS are documented.
They are indisputable.
You will not be successful in producing evidence to the contrary because it does not exist.

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Re: Randomness
Reply #52 - Dec 13^th, 2009 at 12:03am

Quote:

You can only classify that which is living or you have DNA evidence on.
You cannot classify fossils with no DNA. That is ridiculous.

And any classification has to be verified by at least 100 people with no false evolution beliefs imposed on creatures.

That means; the whole thing has to be scratched and redone with absolute, scientific, real evidence and no opinions.

The nested "hierachies" of creatures you have no evidence on is fraud. Grin

What does any of this have to do with randomness?

Listen to me VERY CAREFULLY!
I believe that nothing can escape causality.
I am confident that the universe is deterministic. DNA replication differences are not random. They have causes.
Sometimes it is highly reactive chemicals.
Sometimes it is radiation.
Sometimes organelles bump the DNA polymerase.
Many other causes are possible, and DO happen.
It is a documented well-known scientific FACT that DNA replication IS imperfect because of these causes.
It is a documented well-known scientific FACT that the sequence of DNA a parent gives to a child will contain differences.
It is a documented well-known scientific FACT that these changes to DNA can happen WITHOUT negative effects on the organism.
It is a documented well-known scientific FACT that these changes can confer POSITIVE attributes in the organism.
These FACTS are documented.
They are indisputable.
You will not be successful in producing evidence to the contrary because it does not exist.

So, you finally recognize that you have no clue how these differences occur and you are not going to research them, because it would mess up the belief in evolution, which is utter nonsense with no evidence.

Every thing you stated is opinions, from people who are guessing.

Any sort of random scrambling will kill.

By the way I know all of that. That is why, there can be no random events in the DNA, they are cause and effect.

DNA is not the cause of DNA in the offspring, it is a result of deeper programming that is obvious. Otherwise no continued reproduction is possible.

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GoodScienceForYou YaBB Administrator Offline The obvious isn't obvious until it is obvious Posts: 1361 United States Gender:	Re: Randomness Reply #53 - Dec 13^th, 2009 at 12:14am I would much prefer that you not use the word "change" or "changes" because you have no way to know if they are changes. They are "differences".
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GoodScienceForYou YaBB Administrator Offline The obvious isn't obvious until it is obvious Posts: 1361 United States Gender:	Re: Randomness Reply #54 - Dec 13^th, 2009 at 12:33am I would much prefer that you not use the word "change" or "changes" because you have no way to know if they are changes from the genealogy of the parents. They are "differences". Injecting poisons in the body, will cause screwed up DNA expression.
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oh_noes

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Re: Randomness
Reply #55 - Dec 13^th, 2009 at 4:40am

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Dec 12^th, 2009 at 9:11pm:

oh_noes wrote on Dec 12^th, 2009 at 6:53pm:

So we can add branching hierachies to the list of things you don't get. Fair enough

You can only classify that which is living or you have DNA evidence on.
You cannot classify fossils with no DNA. That is ridiculous.

Comparative anatommy? Geographical distribution? Position in strata? That's at least three ways of classifying fossils that have precisely nothing to do with DNA, flusing your assertions straight down the toilet. Linnean taxonomy was based entirely on comparative anatomy.

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Dec 12^th, 2009 at 9:11pm:

And any classification has to be verified by at least 100 people with no false evolution beliefs imposed on creatures.

1568 taxonomists disagreed with this statement when I asked them. I can make numbers up too.

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MarDuk Ex Member	Re: Randomness Reply #56 - Dec 13^th, 2009 at 9:44am Define Random.
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Re: Randomness
Reply #57 - Dec 13^th, 2009 at 12:02pm

Quote:

Define Random.

Random is this idea that things are chaotic; when they are not.
It is a fantasy word, used by humans who are feeble minded and cannot see all that is happening at one moment so they came up with this BS idea that there is no order to life.

It is simply a term used to make up for the inadequacies of the human mind, because people are fearful of things they don't understand.

Get it?

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Re: Randomness
Reply #58 - Dec 13^th, 2009 at 12:18pm

oh_noes wrote on Dec 13^th, 2009 at 4:40am:

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Dec 12^th, 2009 at 9:11pm:

oh_noes wrote on Dec 12^th, 2009 at 6:53pm:

So we can add branching hierachies to the list of things you don't get. Fair enough

You can only classify that which is living or you have DNA evidence on.
You cannot classify fossils with no DNA. That is ridiculous.

Comparative anatommy? Geographical distribution? Position in strata? That's at least three ways of classifying fossils that have precisely nothing to do with DNA, flusing your assertions straight down the toilet. Linnean taxonomy was based entirely on comparative anatomy.

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Dec 12^th, 2009 at 9:11pm:

And any classification has to be verified by at least 100 people with no false evolution beliefs imposed on creatures.

1568 taxonomists disagreed with this statement when I asked them. I can make numbers up too.

None of them have any empirical evidence to back up their beliefs. That is why I am the imposer of scientific laws on this crap.
You have to have repeatable and testable evidence, not some evaluation by dumb ass believers. You can never impose your beliefs on evidence, and you need to think a lot deeper on these things.
You are still clinging on to fantasy. Let go and start thinking for yourself. What absolute evidence do you have about evolution?

You can NEVER believe any human until you prove to yourself, with absolute evidence, that what they believe is absolutely true. People are full of agendas, been brainwashed from the day they were born, and you want to trust them for only one reason; because you want to believe them and are attracted to this idea. You have to examine yourself and how you got this belief. Then go and remove all beliefs from your mind that are not founded in reality.

If you want to be free, be free. Go with the laws of science and not some religious garbage belief system.

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oh_noes

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Re: Randomness
Reply #59 - Dec 13^th, 2009 at 12:18pm

ran·dom (rndm)
adj.
1. Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective: random movements. See Synonyms at chance.
2. Mathematics & Statistics Of or relating to a type of circumstance or event that is described by a probability distribution.
3. Of or relating to an event in which all outcomes are equally likely, as in the testing of a blood sample for the presence of a substance.

I don't see your definition anywhere.

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