metha wrote on Dec 13^th, 2009 at 5:59pm:


Nothing in "REALITY" is random. It is cause and effect.

You do not know the cause, so you call it random.

It is a human weakness to use such silly words, because humans are feeble minded, and will project belief and ideas on things they know nothing about.  It is a huge problem for humans and it keeps them down, keep them ignorant, and causes all sorts of ridiculous concepts, like evodelusionism.

I personally don't accept anything that is not absolutely proven.  That is why I am sane.  I was tested sane, with no mental problems and I have an IQ over 180.

If you chose to believe things that have never been absolutely proven to you, then you live in fantasy.

The differences in twins is not some random "accident". 

If you believe this then lets subject a hundred of so of your DNA base pairs to scrambling and see how long you live.

How well would you do if your liver turned into slime, or your eyes started growing out of their sockets, or you have a huge hole in your bowels?

Think about this. It is against the laws of physics to have random changes to an organic structure.  Everything is cause and effect.
If they live as an organized life form, then the DNA is not random.  It is organized by the laws of science.

metha wrote on Dec 13^th, 2009 at 7:25pm:


There is no such thing as seemingly random, apparently random, or "complexity" random.

There is no random in the universe, there is only cause and effect. 

Nothing is the cause of itself.

If you can see one event that causes another, then you know there is no random.

If you can see ten events that all have results, then there is no random. 

If you can see the cause of 100 events and the results then you know there is no random.

If you can see a billion events and look at each one by the laws of physics you know there is no random.

There is only cause and effect. Random does not exist.

It is because of the feebleness of the human mind (average human mind) that crap like randomness becomes a religious belief.  All religious beliefs need to be removed from science.

There is no such thing as "random mutations" in DNA. They are neither "random" nor are the "mutations" until you can prove there is no creature in the genealogy with that DNA pattern. Random DNA is death. There is no other possibility.
If one mistake in a DNA base pare can cause severe illness, then 100 or more is certain death.


DNA is not the cause of itself. Nothing is the cause of itself in physical forms.

When you say you "see" apparent random, when you have no idea what the cause is, only shows ignorance of the laws of science that hold the universe together.

There are no magical or mystical causes in this world. But because humans do not have the tools to see all the causes, with their feeble minds, they make up mystical and magical reasons that violate the laws of science.

If you allow magical causes in your mind an accept them, it retards you.  If you are not seeking the truth, and recognized your own human limitations, then you start filling in the blanks with fantasy, beliefs.  It is a human problem to make up religious reasons for events they don't understand.

In the case of Evolution (Evodelusion religion) they make up stories of mystical processes, and magical reasons, base on mythological HEMG.

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Whoa whoa.. define "free will".

Metha quoted [quote]
However, once in a while they might end up with different DNA - a mutation, and we can look at their DNA and verify that their DNA are not exactly the same. This has been done and it is completely documented.[?quote]

Any changes to DNA has a cause.  You can't see it! So why do you want to contribute it to mystical causes?
If you project what you think you see or what you were taught on evidence, it is not objective science.

Why do you believe in random?   Can you prove random beyond all doubts?

So in conclusion, random is a mystical cause and has no basis in science.  PERIOD.

Anyone who's mind is so limited as to believe in mystical causes and magical processes, is not a scientist, but a religious fanatic.  This is a photo of what it looks like. Below and a video make about these stupid Straw Man arguments from people who have been trained out of logic and reason, by society.

oh_noes wrote on Dec 14^th, 2009 at 4:07pm:



Whom. 

Berlinski, has some ideas, but still has beliefs to deal with.

Mostly I have respect for physicists who are actually doing science as the articles I just posted today.
Laurent Lellouch of France's Centre for Theoretical Physics.

When I was 6 years old, I saw a bomb blast in Nevada. Driving though on our way from Arizona to California.  It was in the early morning. We were in a 1942  Pontiac two door coupe. I was riding in the back on top of a pile of belongings.
The whole sky lit up like daylight.  It was friggin amazing.
It was this that got me interested in atomic theory.

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Dec 14^th, 2009 at 1:59pm:


Yes, you can, that is the whole point. One prepares an electron, exactly in a particular position, and it is staggering that it emits a quantum with probability exactly 1/2 each and every time this is being done. Why is that? It is because it is completely random. Or else one would have to explain why it is always with probability 1/2. Because if there were other factors influencing this "not random" process, one had to explain why on earth it always happens with a probability of exactly 1/2.

But that's not all. There is more. Say you prepare the electron again, not with pi/2 radians but in any position and make the same measure. What happens? Does it emit a quantum? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, but always with a certain probability, say this time with probability 1/5. Why can we always predict this probability if this is just a matter of factors that we are not aware of and cannot control. Why would the electron never emit a quantum if I prepared the electron up and measure it up. Why would the electron always emit a quantum if I prepared the electron down and measure it up? Why doesn't these outer "factors" influence the outcome then? And why can we always predict the probability before we start, if there are just some outer factors that makes us "believe" it is random when it is not? It doesn't matter if I use the same electron again and again or if I look at different electrons (on the other side of the earth) when I measure, it will always emit a quantum with a predictable probability. So hence each measurement doesn't influence the next measurements, so that can not be one of the "factors" influencing the outcomes.

This is obviously probabilistic, which classical physics is not.

I think I just gave enough evidence for randomness.

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No preparing an electron in a position is not the same as coin flipping. And as I said before, the probability is a continuous function on the position of the vector. The electron has two states, but emits a quantum with a controlled probability. Einstein also agreed to this.


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I have studied relativity theory, so let's talk about it if you want.


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DNA changes doesn't exist. That is a stupid belief by people who denies God. I said changes could happen in DNA, like in with the twins, but I never said they were random. Life is different, and it isn't my fault that some people believe evolution and denies God. I am not ashamed to say that I think there is some more behind the universe, and I am not afraid to say that I believe in random things, because I think we have free will.

One question at the end. Do you know LaTex code so that I can start a thread on debunking evolution with information theory in another thread? I have no idea how to do it without LaTex, but I guess you know it? Or is that a problem? You have any thoughts on the problems with information in DNA and evolution?

Of course one can predict a coin toss after the coin has lifted from the thumb. But can one predict the toss before the human flipped the coin, and before the coin leaves the thumb? No, it is the human factor that is the source to randomness here, not the outer factors influencing the coin in the air.