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The scientific method (Read 22325 times)
GoodScienceForYou
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #15 - Nov 24th, 2009 at 10:26pm
 
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There is no random in the physical world.  Repeat that truth until you get it.

There is only a cause that can only come passed through the parents.  There can never be any random in any creature.  This would destroy the species.  You cannot have genetics that is random.  If it is random,then it is fluid and instable.  There is nothing but genetic stability shown in the real world of fossils, DNA, and in all of genetics.

If you have instable DNA or genetics you have no creature. It goes rapidly extinct.

You do not understand the cause, because it is not apparent to you.  Just like when you try to use a magnifing glass to look at bacteria, you can't see the cause of the disease, until you have the tools to see it.  IN the same way until you see the cause you are ignorant to it.


None of this ^^^^^ has anything to do with the evidence. The substitution happened. For whatever reason it happened.

And now the child is slightly different. This is called descent with modification.



There is no modification if this is found in the genealogy of the offspring and the parents.  You would never look for this because of your HEMG beliefs.
Go read my answer to Inglorious and wake up.
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ex_chump
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #16 - Nov 24th, 2009 at 10:29pm
 
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There is no modification if this is found in the genealogy of the offspring and the parents.


I just told you, the parent had one sequence and the child has a modified sequence. Descent with modification.

You're never going to admit this are you? Here is the evidence. Plain as day and you're going to just close you eyes and plug your ears. That figures.
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GoodScienceForYou
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #17 - Nov 24th, 2009 at 10:55pm
 
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There is no modification if this is found in the genealogy of the offspring and the parents.


I just told you, the parent had one sequence and the child has a modified sequence. Descent with modification.

You're never going to admit this are you? Here is the evidence. Plain as day and you're going to just close you eyes and plug your ears. That figures.


We can see the change, but we have no idea why, and it is for sure not based on some magical bovine garbage of random changes to the DNA.  You can keep you mystical ideas to yourself.

You cannot make assumptions based on nothing but your religious beliefs as you always do.  You need to get clear of this magical crap belief.  It is ruining your credibility.

You make assumptions and conclusions based on nothing but a projection of religious belief, and you think you are correct?  WTF is the matter with your brain?

You keep giving me opportunities to attack your fundamentalist religious mythological beliefs, so you are going to have them attacked.  If you have no possible clear and obvious evidence or even were to use any science that is real, it would be different.
There is no science in your delusions. 
I am a real scientist and only go with what is absolutely clear and contained in the evidence and in the laws of science. If you continue to violate the laws of science then you are a delusional fool.

You cannot violate the laws of science and make up magical religious crap.
There is no decent with modification if you can't prove modification has taken place.  Is that clear? 

In order to prove modification from any ancestor has taken place you have to have the DNA from the ancestors to test.
In the future this will all go away as the cause of this change will be revealed.  There are no random events or genetic causes. There is only cause and effect. 
You do not know the cause, so you fill in the blanks with your delusional mystical religious bovine garbage.

There is no "random mutation" in the genome. This would destroy the species. Is that clear? There is only genetic stability and adaptations to the environment. Is that clear?
This is all that has been shown in all the evidence you have available from all your papers on genetics. It is revealed in all the speciation papers as well.

There can only be cause and effect in the real world. There is no fu#king magic in science.  It only follows what is presented in the real world of logic and reason.  If it has no possible logic but relies on magical, religious fundamentalist mythological ideas, then it is religious bovine garbage.

You present logical fallacies all the time, so far.  Can you get with the program and become a real scientist?

I am not going to always be patient with people who are unwilling to learn what science really is.  You cannot use your mystical answers any more.  Stop it! Cheesy Grin Smiley Smiley

You do not seem to have the capacity to see that you are just a religious fundamentalist who believes in fairy tales of mystical creatures that have no evidence of ever existing.
You are extremely delusional and it comes from the religious brainwashing you have been victimized by.


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GoodScienceForYou
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #18 - Nov 25th, 2009 at 1:50am
 
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Inglorious
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #19 - Nov 25th, 2009 at 5:35am
 
I don't think you really answered my question. I asked where the information is stored, and you said that it is "the coding that is causal".

What does that mean? It looks like an assertion rather than absolute evidence. Can you point me to the evidence, rather than an "it's obvious"? Your post says that it has been seen "over and over", so presumably it is documented somewhere that I can go and read.

ex_chump pretty much summed up my problem with this.

If the parent has the sequence aaacg and the offspring has the sequence aaatg, then the offspring has a different combination.

Now, you say that this new sequence, aaatg, is not new, but rather would be found in an ancestor. Well, as you have demanded "absolute evidence", can you provide "absolute evidence" that this sequence has been seen in the past?

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ex_chump
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #20 - Nov 25th, 2009 at 6:06am
 
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We can see the change, but we have no idea why, and it is for sure not based on some magical bovine garbage of random changes to the DNA.  You can keep you mystical ideas to yourself
.

DNA copy errors are known to occur. They're not magical, they're a result of a process that is susceptible to perturbation. I gave you any example for one. Why they happen doesn't matter. They happen, at a fairly stable rate. In fact, evolution counts on them as the source of new functionality.

Handwaving and sidestepping and calling this magic isn't argument. I posted a published scientific document and you have refused to acknowledge it let alone argue against it.

I want you to type.. "Ok, fine! descent with modification has been empirically documented and i acknowledge this as absolute proof of its existence." OR explain why this isn't proof of that. Good luck.
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GoodScienceForYou
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #21 - Nov 25th, 2009 at 5:47pm
 
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We can see the change, but we have no idea why, and it is for sure not based on some magical bovine garbage of random changes to the DNA.  You can keep you mystical ideas to yourself
.

DNA copy errors are known to occur. They're not magical, they're a result of a process that is susceptible to perturbation. I gave you any example for one. Why they happen doesn't matter. They happen, at a fairly stable rate. In fact, evolution counts on them as the source of new functionality.

Handwaving and sidestepping and calling this magic isn't argument. I posted a published scientific document and you have refused to acknowledge it let alone argue against it.

I want you to type.. "Ok, fine! descent with modification has been empirically documented and i acknowledge this as absolute proof of its existence." OR explain why this isn't proof of that. Good luck.


You avoid reality like it was some sort of plague.  That is because you are brainwashed and do not have a single original thought.  You are no different than anyone who has surrendered logic and reason for a meal ticket.
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GoodScienceForYou
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #22 - Nov 25th, 2009 at 5:52pm
 
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I don't think you really answered my question. I asked where the information is stored, and you said that it is "the coding that is causal".

What does that mean? It looks like an assertion rather than absolute evidence. Can you point me to the evidence, rather than an "it's obvious"? Your post says that it has been seen "over and over", so presumably it is documented somewhere that I can go and read.

ex_chump pretty much summed up my problem with this.

If the parent has the sequence aaacg and the offspring has the sequence aaatg, then the offspring has a different combination.

Now, you say that this new sequence, aaatg, is not new, but rather would be found in an ancestor. Well, as you have demanded "absolute evidence", can you provide "absolute evidence" that this sequence has been seen in the past?



One more time.  There is a law of science that states there is no random in the physical world. Random does not exist.

The way things happen are cause and effect, even when you can't see it.

We know from genetics that THE only source of genetic information can come from the parents. This has been known forever and was only messed with when this delusional idea of evolution was infecting science.

There is no other place to get information from. 

So, if there is no such thing as random and the only source for the information in the genome of the child is from the parents, it is only natural that any changes from the parents 'exposed' DNA is from what you cannot see as the cause.

It is very obvious and clear.
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GoodScienceForYou
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #23 - Nov 25th, 2009 at 8:30pm
 
Your life and the truth is worth far more than some need to belong to something that makes you feel important.

The weak neediness of humans make them want to believe something that gives life meaning, even if it is a total lie.

There is no need to believe in bovine garbage, when that is all you have.  You need to set your sites higher, towards what is true.  If you seek the truth, you will find it.  If you seek to perpetuate belief, then that is all you have.

"You do something someone else's way, you take your life into your own hands."  Dirty Harry (really)

"The purpose of enforced conformity is control.  They make examples out of those who don't conform and
they own you this way."

"The keepers, guardians of their fake "truth" are vigilant and always angry when their belief are attacked with the truth."

If you don't understand this video then you are not ready to face the truth.  The truth does set you free.


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Inglorious
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #24 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 2:05am
 
You keep referring to "the laws of science" and "this has been known for ages".

Can you provide citations of the science literature please. All I have thus far is your assertion that these things exist. Since you are the one is contantly telling me not simply to believe what others tell me, can you back it up with a citation from the science literature?
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GoodScienceForYou
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #25 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm
 
Quote:
You keep referring to "the laws of science" and "this has been known for ages".

Can you provide citations of the science literature please. All I have thus far is your assertion that these things exist. Since you are the one is contantly telling me not simply to believe what others tell me, can you back it up with a citation from the science literature?



You know that I am going to make you look like an idiot.
Why do you fools insist on being humiliated in order to understand real science?

How can you ask such a dumb question? Don't you know that the whole "theory of evolution" is based on this idea of cause and effect?  How lost are you.  Either the white dear in the snow survives or the brown dear in the snow survives.
Are you really that lost, or are you just gullible and have weakness of character?  That is a question you need to ask yourself.

In physics we have a very basic law that runs all physical interaction.   It is the law of cause and effect.
If you don't know this you are not a scientist. It is the first thing one learns in physics because ALL OF physics depends on it and it never fails!

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

In the physical universe all matter and energy follows this law. The next law that destroys random is this one:

"Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed." 

When someone using a pile of garbage logic that does not fit what is actually happening in the entire world of physical phenomenon, covered by those two laws, you know they are really screwed up mentally.  The only thing that causes this sort of delusional bovine garbage is religious beliefs that are fantasy and what is called "magical thinking".



That last blithering idiot, living in denial of reality, left like a screaming angry bitch, because that is what a person is who lays down like a bitch dog to ever dumb ass authority.

Are you ready to learn or are you going to be one of those screaming bitches whom I have to destroy in order to teach them a lesson.

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Inglorious
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #26 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:53pm
 
GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
Quote:
You keep referring to "the laws of science" and "this has been known for ages".

Can you provide citations of the science literature please. All I have thus far is your assertion that these things exist. Since you are the one is contantly telling me not simply to believe what others tell me, can you back it up with a citation from the science literature?





GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
Don't you know that the whole "theory of evolution" is based on this idea of cause and effect?


Yes.

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
Either the white dear in the snow survives or the brown dear in the snow survives.

Exactly. That would be a selection pressure, the one best suited to the environment has the best chance of survival and thus the best chance of passing on its genes.

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
In physics we have a very basic law that runs all physical interaction. It is the law of cause and effect.

You refer to the idea that the Universe is deterministic, a position that is yet to be demonstrated, but which I happen to agree with. I don't say it's proven, because it isn't. In particular there are various aspects of quantum mechanics that are not well enough understood, virtual particles spring to mind immediately. The copenhagen interpreation (she shroedingers cat) and probability wave functions are not certainly not well enough understood to declare them to be deterministic. The dual slit experiment is probably the easiest way to observe this.

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
If you don't know this you are not a scientist. It is the first thing one learns in physics because ALL OF physics depends on it and it never fails!

Go tell it to the quantum physicists. I never claimed to be a scientist, but I do have qualifications in physics. Most of my formal training, as I started previously, was in maths.

You are yet to define what a scientist is. I defined it the other day, I suggested a scientist is one who has a paper published in a recognised journal that has been cited. Can you claim to have one, or are you not a scientist either?

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

You do realise that this is one of Newtons laws of motion, right? You also realise that this law actually fails in certain circumstances? That is, it is only a law under controlled conditions, much as Newtons law of gravity is a special case of general relativity? Oooh look, I just showed two laws that don't always hold true Cheesy

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
The next law that destroys random is this one:

"Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed."

Ahh, now we are on with thermodynamics. No issues with this one. 

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
When someone using a pile of garbage logic that does not fit what is actually happening in the entire world of physical phenomenon, covered by those two laws, you know they are really screwed up mentally.

I would postulate that when someone suggests that laws are proven despite these laws only working under predetermined conditions they don't have a clue what they are talking about.

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
  The only thing that causes this sort of delusional bovine garbage is religious beliefs that are fantasy and what is called "magical thinking".

Quite.


GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
That last blithering idiot, living in denial of reality, left like a screaming angry bitch, because that is what a person is who lays down like a bitch dog to ever dumb ass authority.

So presumably you will retract the statements that I have shown to be in error?

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
Are you ready to learn or are you going to be one of those screaming bitches whom I have to destroy in order to teach them a lesson.


Oh keep up the "destruction", its fun to pick holes in it.
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #27 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 1:49pm
 
If random is real, then nothing exists, but chaos and no order.

It really is a law that there is no random.  It is a logical fallacy that random exists. 

I don't believe in fairy tales and complicated bovine garbage filled with pages of logical fallacy.  If you do that is your problem.

If you believe in random then you are not a scientist but a religious nut case.

There is no magic in science. There are laws.

Because of this absolute law, there can be no "random mutations" in DNA.  It is utter religious "magical thinking" bovine garbage.  Utter nonsense and a lie.

IF they will lie to you about random, what else do they lie to you about. 

How about the bovine garbage that there is "synthetic carbon" used in making nylon.  That is a direct lie.

If you go through all of their evidence it  is all a lie with nothing to tie it together but a thread of utter religious human garbage beliefs.

I hate magical religious human mental garbage in science.  Yet it has always been there.

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt." Albert Einstein

"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." Albert Einstein

"I personally am disgusted by anyone who would use utterly contrary crap religious belief that opposes the laws of science, and call themselves a scientist."  GoodScienceForYou

If you are one of those religious nut case "pseudo scientists" Evodelusionists, then you are not going to fair very well in any discussion on science facts with me.  I will destroy you in any debate.

And if random exists the entire idea of evolution in all its facets is completely destroyed. That is funny as hell.  Yet these dumb asses are not aware that they contradict themselves all the time. 

You cannot have random in DNA and no random in evolution theory.  Idiots are running this science.  If you can keep track of all the contradictions, which takes the ability to understand two simple things at one time, which is about a "room temperature" IQ level; you would never see evolution anywhere.

You cannot have two "truths" that are utterly contrary in science.  One is bovine garbage the other is true.  There is no gray in real science. 

In this case random is HEMG, and cause and effect is true.
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GoodScienceForYou
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #28 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 2:10pm
 
Quote:
GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
Quote:
You keep referring to "the laws of science" and "this has been known for ages".

Can you provide citations of the science literature please. All I have thus far is your assertion that these things exist. Since you are the one is contantly telling me not simply to believe what others tell me, can you back it up with a citation from the science literature?





GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
Don't you know that the whole "theory of evolution" is based on this idea of cause and effect?


Yes.

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
Either the white dear in the snow survives or the brown dear in the snow survives.

Exactly. That would be a selection pressure, the one best suited to the environment has the best chance of survival and thus the best chance of passing on its genes.

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
In physics we have a very basic law that runs all physical interaction. It is the law of cause and effect.

You refer to the idea that the Universe is deterministic, a position that is yet to be demonstrated, but which I happen to agree with. I don't say it's proven, because it isn't. In particular there are various aspects of quantum mechanics that are not well enough understood, virtual particles spring to mind immediately. The copenhagen interpreation (she shroedingers cat) and probability wave functions are not certainly not well enough understood to declare them to be deterministic. The dual slit experiment is probably the easiest way to observe this.

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
If you don't know this you are not a scientist. It is the first thing one learns in physics because ALL OF physics depends on it and it never fails!

Go tell it to the quantum physicists. I never claimed to be a scientist, but I do have qualifications in physics. Most of my formal training, as I started previously, was in maths.

You are yet to define what a scientist is. I defined it the other day, I suggested a scientist is one who has a paper published in a recognised journal that has been cited. Can you claim to have one, or are you not a scientist either?

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

You do realise that this is one of Newtons laws of motion, right? You also realise that this law actually fails in certain circumstances? That is, it is only a law under controlled conditions, much as Newtons law of gravity is a special case of general relativity? Oooh look, I just showed two laws that don't always hold true Cheesy

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
The next law that destroys random is this one:

"Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed."

Ahh, now we are on with thermodynamics. No issues with this one. 

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
When someone using a pile of garbage logic that does not fit what is actually happening in the entire world of physical phenomenon, covered by those two laws, you know they are really screwed up mentally.

I would postulate that when someone suggests that laws are proven despite these laws only working under predetermined conditions they don't have a clue what they are talking about.

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
  The only thing that causes this sort of delusional bovine garbage is religious beliefs that are fantasy and what is called "magical thinking".

Quite.


GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
That last blithering idiot, living in denial of reality, left like a screaming angry bitch, because that is what a person is who lays down like a bitch dog to ever dumb ass authority.

So presumably you will retract the statements that I have shown to be in error?

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Nov 26th, 2009 at 12:24pm:
Are you ready to learn or are you going to be one of those screaming bitches whom I have to destroy in order to teach them a lesson.


Oh keep up the "destruction", its fun to pick holes in it.


I would say you are a moron if you don't know the absolute laws of science. They are obvious, always work and never fail.
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Inglorious
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Re: The scientific method
Reply #29 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 2:34pm
 
If the laws never fail, why is it that I can point to specific examples where Newtons laws fail? I even mentioned it. It is simply a special case of what we now know, the knowledge given to us by Einstein. It is underpinned by classical mechanics which is a limiting case of general relativity (actually special relativity, but that itself is a special case of general relativity).

As for your continuous and laborious rants about random, do you even read my posts? What about the post I made where I said I didn't think true randomness existed?

I noted that I didn't think you had understood my reference to apparent randomness, this would seem to confirm it.
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