GoodScienceForYou Neutral Evolution Forum - Evodelusion HAS been proven!

GoodScienceForYou

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #60 - Jan 18^th, 2010 at 11:52pm

ThunderF00tslefttesticle wrote on Jan 18^th, 2010 at 10:24pm:

Quote:

Produce DNA evidence of a pre human creature with all those ERV's. That would be a good start.

They have found very similar ERV's (genetic markers) in apes. We cannot test organisms of what humans evolved from because the creature is no longer around. But we can test the genetic markers in similar creatures and we can show that we share similar ERV's with apes.

"Produce DNA evidence that ties any creature to any fossil?"
Care to explain? Considering that chimps share 99.8% of our DNA.. Is that not enough for you?

"If you can dig up a long series of transitional humans in a continual lineage from start to finish, so that there is clear transitional bones, and head shapes that leave no gaps."
That's not physically possible. Here is an example. If I showed you a picture of George Bush as a child and showed you another picture of him as an adult. Would you then agree that they are one and the same? Now if you said no, would you then accept it if I showed you that their facial structures were the same by using a specialized machine that focuses on that type of observation? If you say no, why not? Will you not accept that he grew up unless I showed you a picture of George Bush that was taken every single day of his life? Now, if you take in how many days the average person lives and how infrequently pictures are actually taken in comparison to a persons life, would you then acknowledge that asking for that as evidence is futile? It is impossible for that to happen even (if) evolution is true.

"nonsense requires complicated science and voodoo that only the high priests can understand. "
So.. nonsense requires complicated science that only the people who actually study in the field can understand it. AKA you can't understand it so you deny it's possibility simply because you can't understand the simplicities of evolutionary theory. And yes, it is a very simple theory to understand.

Repeat after me: I swear that I will not fall for that incredibly stupid slogan again! I know that if there is no evidence, I cannot fill in the blanks with faith and belief. I know that if there is no evidence, there is no evidence. If it is not there, it is not there. It most likely never was there and is a part of a fantasy.

This is the road to getting your mind back.

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GoodScienceForYou

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #61 - Jan 18^th, 2010 at 11:59pm

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 18^th, 2010 at 11:52pm:

ThunderF00tslefttesticle wrote on Jan 18^th, 2010 at 10:24pm:

Quote:

Produce DNA evidence of a pre human creature with all those ERV's. That would be a good start.

They have found very similar ERV's (genetic markers) in apes. We cannot test organisms of what humans evolved from because the creature is no longer around. But we can test the genetic markers in similar creatures and we can show that we share similar ERV's with apes.

"Produce DNA evidence that ties any creature to any fossil?"
Care to explain? Considering that chimps share 99.8% of our DNA.. Is that not enough for you?

"If you can dig up a long series of transitional humans in a continual lineage from start to finish, so that there is clear transitional bones, and head shapes that leave no gaps."
That's not physically possible. Here is an example. If I showed you a picture of George Bush as a child and showed you another picture of him as an adult. Would you then agree that they are one and the same? Now if you said no, would you then accept it if I showed you that their facial structures were the same by using a specialized machine that focuses on that type of observation? If you say no, why not? Will you not accept that he grew up unless I showed you a picture of George Bush that was taken every single day of his life? Now, if you take in how many days the average person lives and how infrequently pictures are actually taken in comparison to a persons life, would you then acknowledge that asking for that as evidence is futile? It is impossible for that to happen even (if) evolution is true.

"nonsense requires complicated science and voodoo that only the high priests can understand. "
So.. nonsense requires complicated science that only the people who actually study in the field can understand it. AKA you can't understand it so you deny it's possibility simply because you can't understand the simplicities of evolutionary theory. And yes, it is a very simple theory to understand.

Repeat after me: I swear that I will not fall for that incredibly stupid slogan again! I know that if there is no evidence, I cannot fill in the blanks with faith and belief. I know that if there is no evidence, there is no evidence. If it is not there, it is not there. It most likely never was there and is a part of a fantasy.

This is the road to getting your mind back.

"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."
Albert Einstein

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." Albert Einstein

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein

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GoodScienceForYou

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #62 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 12:06am

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 18^th, 2010 at 11:59pm:

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 18^th, 2010 at 11:52pm:

ThunderF00tslefttesticle wrote on Jan 18^th, 2010 at 10:24pm:

Quote:

Produce DNA evidence of a pre human creature with all those ERV's. That would be a good start.

They have found very similar ERV's (genetic markers) in apes. We cannot test organisms of what humans evolved from because the creature is no longer around. But we can test the genetic markers in similar creatures and we can show that we share similar ERV's with apes.

"Produce DNA evidence that ties any creature to any fossil?"
Care to explain? Considering that chimps share 99.8% of our DNA.. Is that not enough for you?

"If you can dig up a long series of transitional humans in a continual lineage from start to finish, so that there is clear transitional bones, and head shapes that leave no gaps."
That's not physically possible. Here is an example. If I showed you a picture of George Bush as a child and showed you another picture of him as an adult. Would you then agree that they are one and the same? Now if you said no, would you then accept it if I showed you that their facial structures were the same by using a specialized machine that focuses on that type of observation? If you say no, why not? Will you not accept that he grew up unless I showed you a picture of George Bush that was taken every single day of his life? Now, if you take in how many days the average person lives and how infrequently pictures are actually taken in comparison to a persons life, would you then acknowledge that asking for that as evidence is futile? It is impossible for that to happen even (if) evolution is true.

"nonsense requires complicated science and voodoo that only the high priests can understand. "
So.. nonsense requires complicated science that only the people who actually study in the field can understand it. AKA you can't understand it so you deny it's possibility simply because you can't understand the simplicities of evolutionary theory. And yes, it is a very simple theory to understand.

Repeat after me: I swear that I will not fall for that incredibly stupid slogan again! I know that if there is no evidence, I cannot fill in the blanks with faith and belief. I know that if there is no evidence, there is no evidence. If it is not there, it is not there. It most likely never was there and is a part of a fantasy.

This is the road to getting your mind back.

"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."
Albert Einstein

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." Albert Einstein

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein

All religious slogans like: "the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence", meaning it must have been their "I can see it in my head, along with all those voices. If I can see it in my head it must be real." All religious slogans do not belong in science.

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ThunderF00tslefttesticle

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #63 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 12:07am

Quote:

absence of evidence is no evidence of absence

Actually that saying isn't nonsense. Let me give you an example. 4,000 years ago, we couldn't see Pluto. Is that evidence that Pluto doesn't exist? Of course not. 1,000 years ago we had no idea that plate tectonics existed. Is that evidence in itself that plate tectonics doesn't exist? Of course not. However, I'll give you ONE thing. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. We have evidence from allele frequencies within mutations which can depict evolutionary change. However, you believe God put us all here. Why do you believe God put us all here when there is absolutely no evidence for God, but in accordance with evolution, you raise your burden of proof so high that no one can prove it to you. In effect, you're stacking the deck in your favor. In your mind, you have already won before the debate even begun and before the evidence was even laid out.

Quote:

The logical fallacy is that this is the truth to break that nonsense for you, if you listen carefully and you still have any objective reason.

Do you even know what logical fallacy means? You keep using that word. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Quote:

You never believe anyone and you make your own determinations on any piece of evidence!

I DID. It may surprise you but I didn't learn about evolution in school. In fact, I never even took a high school science class. Ironic enough, I am going into the sciences. I learned about evolution on my own. Why? Because the intricate properties of life fascinate me. Evolution is an intricate property of life. Biological organisms change. They evolve. They do not stay the same forever. This is a property of life kind of like falling is a property of gravity.

Quote:

Just interbreeding of humans with animals.

Humans can't interbreed with non-human animals you nitwit.
There is a thing called Chromosomes. Say it with me now.. Chro mo somes. Three syllables. Do you know what they do? Well, sex chromosomes prevent animals that are genetically different from each other from interbreeding. Do you know what this means? This means that chimps and humans CAN'T f**kING HAVE CHILDREN! Why? Because the chromosomes aren't compatible. Let me use an analogy you might be familiar with. It would be like trying to fit a cube (a shape with 6 sides) into a triangle slot (a shape with 3 sides) It just can't be done. It is INCOMPATIBLE. Here is an analogy that more sophisticated people may understand. It is like trying to put the mac OS on a windows PC. It can't be done. (Although, recently the mac does allow the windows OS but that is due to programming)

Want another example? Try to put a recent video game on a computer running Windows 95. It can't be done. Why? Because they require XP or Vista to run. They are I-N-C-O-M-P-A-T-I-B-L-E!!! INCOMPATIBLE!! Interbreeding with other species that do not share the chromosomal compatibility is the true pseudoscience nonsense that you're spewing.

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GoodScienceForYou

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #64 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 12:20am

ThunderF00tslefttesticle wrote on Jan 19^th, 2010 at 12:07am:

Quote:

absence of evidence is no evidence of absence

Actually that saying isn't nonsense. Let me give you an example. 4,000 years ago, we couldn't see Pluto. Is that evidence that Pluto doesn't exist? Of course not. 1,000 years ago we had no idea that plate tectonics existed. Is that evidence in itself that plate tectonics doesn't exist? Of course not. However, I'll give you ONE thing. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. We have evidence from allele frequencies within mutations which can depict evolutionary change. However, you believe God put us all here. Why do you believe God put us all here when there is absolutely no evidence for God, but in accordance with evolution, you raise your burden of proof so high that no one can prove it to you. In effect, you're stacking the deck in your favor. In your mind, you have already won before the debate even begun and before the evidence was even laid out.

It is really hard for me to fathom how stupid you are. I am not kidding. You continue with extreme nonsense that has been inflicted on your mind.

You idiot Pluto was there and was found, so it is evidence.
This has nothing to do with the fact that we have no evidence for evolution.

There is nothing to fill in the gaps with that is actual evidence in the fossil record in DNA, ERV's,Chromosomes. Therefore there is no evidence. and that means there exists no evidence.
So, therefore only a f**king moron would believe this garbage.

Listen to this video by this guy who is an expert in science.
He actually made my case for me. He explained how humans had 48 chromosomes at one time. Then I went and looked at human chromosomes and Chimp chromosomes and immediatly figured it out. It is so damned obvious.

He showed me the exact alignment with the chromosomes. Then I studied and found other creatures that have not bred and were flown thousands of miles to breed because their chromosomes match. The outcome is the CAMA. This was pure genetics and real genetics and it works.

Before the fusion of # 2 humans and apes could mate. Go look!

http://evolutionforum.info/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1257966781

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GoodScienceForYou YaBB Administrator Offline The obvious isn't obvious until it is obvious Posts: 1361 United States Gender:	Re: Evolution HAS been proven Reply #65 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 12:22am You must watch all the videos, and all the evidence on that thread. It is required reading and listening to. http://evolutionforum.info/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1257966781
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ThunderF00tslefttesticle

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #66 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 12:34am

Quote:

You idiot Pluto was there and was found, so it is evidence.

Pluto was discovered in the 1930's. What the quote, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is stating, if you didn't know, is that you can't prove a negative. You cannot prove that something doesn't happen. This is one of the things that quote is actually saying. What you're now saying is that you CAN prove that something doesn't exist by saying that there is no evidence for it. This is WRONG. By this justification, you can say that pluto didn't exist prior to 1930 because no one had discovered it yet.

Quote:

This has nothing to do with the fact that we have no evidence for evolution.

We DO have evidence you just refuse to accept it. Let me introduce you to a book. It is called the Greatest Show on Earth. You can also read the Blind Watchmaker or the Selfish Gene. Go on. Read those three books.

Quote:

feculence.

I've noticed that when you use a big word quite a bit without variation then you are proud that you know of a big word and you are trying to get people to think you are intelligent when you can use that word in a sentence, but when you overuse the word, it makes you sound like an idiot. Like you're trying too hard.

Quote:

He actually made my case for me. He explained how humans had 48 chromosomes at one time. Then I went and looked at human chromosomes and Chimp chromosomes and immediatly figured it out. It is so damned obvious."

Actually that proves that humans and apes are genetically linked to a common ancestor. It isn't proof that modern day humans can mate with modern day apes. We were one and the same when our chromosomes were at 48. We splintered into two different ape varieties.
So of course pre-humans and pre-apes could mate. BECAUSE WE WERE THE SAME SPECIES!!

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ThunderF00tslefttesticle YaBB Newbies Offline Seek Truth! Posts: 38	Re: Evolution HAS been proven Reply #67 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 12:38am I am amused that you gave me a link to one of DonExodus' videos. He is a big proponent of evolution and he even EXPLAINS that evolution is real! He even uses Kenneth Miller as a source! He is a Catholic who acknowledge evolution which makes your argument that atheism is a religion to deny God null and void.
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CreationIst

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #68 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:32am

I must say, having read the mess that is this thread, that Goodscience is making literally no sense. Even I, someone who finds the idea of coming from apes distasteful, can agree with the others as to his lack of understanding.
Goodscience - I feel sorry for you, stuck in a limbo of mixed understanding with little hope of salvation due to an irascible attitude. I hope you find a way out. This forum is anything but neutral. You said you were a seeker of truth and only truth matters, yet you redefine words to your own liking. This is totally dishonest and I think you know that, which makes it worse.

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Dabeer

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #69 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:46am

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 18^th, 2010 at 9:02pm:

If every peice of evidence shows a genealogy from the mating of humans passing down the ERV's to the primates, that is pretty compelling.

The evidence shows no such thing. If you think it does, PROVE IT. Don't just talk about it, show me actual genomes, and specific ERVs.

Quote:

When you look at the DNA,Chromosomes and the whole genome evidence of all these creatures, Gorrilla, Chimp, Orangutans, Human It is clear there is only evidence for interbreeding. When you have a mass of years and many interbreedings until the ability to breed stops, you would see these individual genomes and being from the same family caused by human breeding. The most obvious is the Chimp and the Human as being from parent and offspring.

You know what? You're right. There was interbreeding... but it happened BEFORE humans and chimps diverged - before they were separate SPECIES. This is basic evolution for you.

Quote:

There is absolutely no way for you to refute this evidence. Just like all the genetics professors and doctors who could not and just became frustrated with it because it destroys one of their, the Evodelusionsists religious icons of the "great primate" that magically evolved into humans, chimps, gorillas, orangutans, and all the monkeys they tie with ERV's.

I can't refute what doesn't exist.

Quote:

I have been studying this in great detail. You have not. You just lay down like a weak dog and accept the conjecture from nonsense artists.

Another terms-of-use-breaking false statement. I have been researching this on my own for years, and have been challenging the evidence when I don't understand it. The bottom line is that the evidence presents a coherent explanation for the development and continued adaptation of life on this planet.

Quote:

When all the evidence fits, you cannot refute!

And yet, here you are, trying to refute evolution. You have no such evidence to support your "hypothesis" - and even then, your hypothesis does not explain the millions - or billions - of other species that evolved on this planet.

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"A denial of evolution - however motivated - is a denial of evidence, a retreat from reason to ignorance." - Dr. Tim D. White

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Dabeer

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #70 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:47am

CreationIst wrote on Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:32am:

I must say, having read the mess that is this thread, that Goodscience is making literally no sense. Even I, someone who finds the idea of coming from apes distasteful, can agree with the others as to his lack of understanding.
Goodscience - I feel sorry for you, stuck in a limbo of mixed understanding with little hope of salvation due to an irascible attitude. I hope you find a way out. This forum is anything but neutral. You said you were a seeker of truth and only truth matters, yet you redefine words to your own liking. This is totally dishonest and I think you know that, which makes it worse.

I'm glad to see you recognized that. Good luck in your continued effort to advance your mind.

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Dabeer

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #71 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:48am

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 18^th, 2010 at 9:11pm:

Rule number 1/ There are no magical causes nor mystical processes.

2/ Only look at the evidence and never listen to the "scientists" as if they know something. Historically they have been proven wrong 100% of the time on things that have almost no evidence. Humans are prone to fill in the blanks with belief.

3/ Never believe anyone, including me until you get off your butt and do the work and look at the evidence with no preconcieved ideas. Then eventually the evidence will "speak" to you over and over with the same themes.

If you see a theme, keep looking OBJECTIVELY to see if it continues in ever aspect of any part of this premise.

If there is anything that would refute this, study that over and over and over, and see if you get a new theme.

Evidence is only physical. Opinions are NEVER evidence. Beware of "experts" with their pompous nonsense. They can be so adamant and "sure" while at the same time complete, utter, illogical fools.

People never want to think they may be wrong. Finding any humility and grace in religious nonsense being pawned off as science, and actually giving these fools a PHD, only reinforces my desire to get rid of this crap from science.

And yet here you are, spouting off your own opinions as "facts"... it's sad, really.

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Dabeer

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #72 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:50am

GoodScienceForYou wrote on Jan 18^th, 2010 at 9:19pm:

Unlike you, I actuall present evidence in the DNA, ERV's, Chromosomes, historical evidence, and pshcholigical evidence in the amazing abilities of Chimps.
It is not based on anything but the actual evidence we have.

Then SHOW THAT EVIDENCE! Explain how the evidence supports your hypothesis! I have yet to see that anywhere, on this board or on any other.

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CreationIst

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #73 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:59am

Dabeer wrote on Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:47am:

CreationIst wrote on Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:32am:

I must say, having read the mess that is this thread, that Goodscience is making literally no sense. Even I, someone who finds the idea of coming from apes distasteful, can agree with the others as to his lack of understanding.
Goodscience - I feel sorry for you, stuck in a limbo of mixed understanding with little hope of salvation due to an irascible attitude. I hope you find a way out. This forum is anything but neutral. You said you were a seeker of truth and only truth matters, yet you redefine words to your own liking. This is totally dishonest and I think you know that, which makes it worse.

I'm glad to see you recognized that. Good luck in your continued effort to advance your mind.

Thanks. I've only just begun to look into this topic, as it is just dismissed in my church. I thought it prudent to know what it really is if I'm going to actively dispute it. At this rate, I'm likely to be convinced of its truthfulness if this level of misunderstanding is prevalent. It's disconcerting but freeing in a way. Maybe I am an ape after all...
bleurgh

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Dabeer

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Re: Evolution HAS been proven
Reply #74 - Jan 19^th, 2010 at 5:05am

CreationIst wrote on Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:59am:

Dabeer wrote on Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:47am:

CreationIst wrote on Jan 19^th, 2010 at 4:32am:

I must say, having read the mess that is this thread, that Goodscience is making literally no sense. Even I, someone who finds the idea of coming from apes distasteful, can agree with the others as to his lack of understanding.
Goodscience - I feel sorry for you, stuck in a limbo of mixed understanding with little hope of salvation due to an irascible attitude. I hope you find a way out. This forum is anything but neutral. You said you were a seeker of truth and only truth matters, yet you redefine words to your own liking. This is totally dishonest and I think you know that, which makes it worse.

I'm glad to see you recognized that. Good luck in your continued effort to advance your mind.

Thanks. I've only just begun to look into this topic, as it is just dismissed in my church. I thought it prudent to know what it really is if I'm going to actively dispute it. At this rate, I'm likely to be convinced of its truthfulness if this level of misunderstanding is prevalent. It's disconcerting but freeing in a way. Maybe I am an ape after all...
bleurgh

I can understand why it might be disturbing to know that you are... but as you said, it can also be freeing. Instead of being separate from the universe, you can recognize that you are a part of it.

I highly recommend videos on YouTube by AronRa, DonExodus2, Thunderf00t, cdk007, and Potholer54, among others. They are quite educational, and present evidence as well as explanation so that the lay person doesn't need 12 years of school to understand. talkorigins.org also has a lot of good information, but can be harder to navigate.

There may yet be valid challenges to the Theory of Evolution... but talkorigins.org deals with almost all of the invalid challenges.

Best of luck.

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"A denial of evolution - however motivated - is a denial of evidence, a retreat from reason to ignorance." - Dr. Tim D. White

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